Author Topic: negatives of FED as bracket car?  (Read 1598 times)

Online wideopen231

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2019, 11:43:50 AM »
but again Ive never had to race on a track with a crappy shutdown area, Id rather pack up and go home then to kill the car

I hope you packed up this day.  I think this was Sac?  Made for a great photo opp...

And that is why I have steering wheel mounted oh crap button to dump the chute if need.
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline BK

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2019, 04:59:10 PM »
The only thing I can think of is heat in the cockpit.
After a time trial or two right around third round everything is hot.
I was glad to have my fire suit between me and the heat.
It never stopped me though just reality.

Online wideopen231

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2019, 02:54:42 PM »
thanks .
Add fan to car to pull heat out of cock pit. Thats advice I can appreciate,especially considering how much I hat heat. Good thing is most bracket races around here time between rounds is long for first 2 or 3 anyway and getting later and cooler by late rounds.
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline Scott Krieger

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2019, 03:31:04 PM »
Negatives to overcome as bracket car, TO WIN?

Front tires don't like leaving the stage beams consistently pass to pass.
Dose not turn well.
Likes to bottom out & sages over time.
Can't see center of track.

Some things need to be overcome and some you contend with, to gain the advantages and ride of a FED!

Our FED won the last pro bracket here at LVMS and is fifth in points with 4 to go. Car is very happy





Online wideopen231

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2019, 04:55:01 PM »
Hopefully I have at least two of those covered.

 Hoping the slip joint I have about 1.5' back from front axle will help with lights and beams. 

As for seeing center of track my semi high chair positions and new lowered injector  should help there, Visibility of front end was big part of reason for building lower set up

As for others time will tell as with all things and will attack then. Agian I am hoping the above things will be more limited .

As for does not turn well. Are you talking straight axle front end or A arm style front end? Not say difference ,but have me wondering .
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline Scott Krieger

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2019, 07:46:03 AM »
Made ours a 174" triple slip joint to fit a normal garage. Can jack up the car under the front motor mount bottom rail will raise 7" before front tires start to dangle off the ground. First two slips I use stops on to control about 4" of that movement. Front slip is always free to eat up shut down area and getting on binders hard.

For us that fixed the sagging that occurs over time and it plants the fronts into the ground before lifting them. If we try to lift the fronts for a picture by adding rear weight, they come up about 20' out and chassis arch is cool. Not bracket mode.

A arm front, can set up at 0", 1" or 2" stagger. LVMS's track exits to the left, so we run 1" with left being short. makes turning that way much easier.

In the car you can see the middle top half of the front tires, thats good enough. We race 90 degrees at the finish line. Most door cars are slower, so we drive up to their rear bumper/back tire depending.  Most dragsters are faster so we can see their fronts coming and bring their cage in.

Enjoy

Offline rooman

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2019, 05:58:53 AM »
Negatives to overcome as bracket car, TO WIN?

Front tires don't like leaving the stage beams consistently pass to pass.
Dose not turn well.
Likes to bottom out & sages over time.
Can't see center of track.


#1 If the car does not leave consistently there is something wrong with your chassis/set up

#2 If it does not turn well there is something wrong with the way the steering is set up (this also applies to Scott's car--the amount of stagger should not affect how the car turns although poor ackerman geometry is often a contributing factor)

#3 If it bottoms out and sags over time you have a chassis design problem

#4 Are you talking the overall track centerline or your own lane? If you can't see the track centerline, once again it is a problem with the design of the car. As for the centerline of your own lane, straight ahead visibility is highly overrated--as long as the wall and the track centerline stay the same distance from the car you are going down the middle of the lane.

The above comments are based on 50 years of building front motor cars, lots of time as a crew chief on a  7.0 car  and some seat time in a couple of front motor top fuel cars. In the NDRL 7.0 category it usually takes a 7.00 something to be at the top of the qualifying list and the dragsters are right in the mix and can repeat.

Roo
Yeah, I am from the south--any further south and I would have been a bloody penguin.

Online wideopen231

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2019, 03:16:33 PM »
Turned fine other day riding around neighborhood .Well was little rough turning around at end of street with only 2 lane ride area.LOL Hey neighbors thought it was cool and I was bored. Even Deputy 6 houses down liked it,

 I do have to adjust the stop for left hand turns since tire gets into the drag link enough to rub pretty good,but only issue on really hard turn which should not really be doing anyway.
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Online wideopen231

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2019, 03:24:45 PM »
Made ours a 174" triple slip joint to fit a normal garage. Can jack up the car under the front motor mount bottom rail will raise 7" before front tires start to dangle off the ground. First two slips I use stops on to control about 4" of that movement. Front slip is always free to eat up shut down area and getting on binders hard.


Enjoy

 I can raise mine about that with all joints loosed up some. I am going to start out full rigid and loosen front joints then maybe one of others . I have 3 in chassis plus the one at front end. My front slip joint allows good amount of chassis lift w/o wheels leaving ground. I figured while building car I would add them as another tuning tool and if decided I did not need or like something a few minutes with welder and little grinding of the stops and we are back to solid chassis. Naterials cost almost nothing and was just work and thats point of having a race car.
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline Scott Krieger

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2019, 09:56:05 AM »
Hey rooman,
Bracket racing my friend is a different world to win in. Not saying to race in, but to win in.


5 tenths, full tree with no electronics car is not the same as a car with electronics. Have you every built or run a fed to leave on the flash of the third bulb? Where you have to try and keep the front tires in the beams a extra .100, a whole tenth of a second. Jon Hansen (Hayden Wheels) may know the differences here.
 
A 4 tenths pro tree or electronics car just needs to get out of the beams as fast as possible. So what I meant was consistency of front tires in the stage beams because were in there a long time. If I ever run a 4 tenths tree I would run the smallest possible front tires we could. Less is more, less time in the stage beams the more consistent it will be. Like I said earlier we run 25" fronts bottom bulbing with 18" wheels from Jon

Not saying it cant be done. We won comp eliminator at 74 sportsman nationals running as a b/ed. First year of the econorail. We did it in Kuhl & Olsens last front engine car. Mike has it back now and restored as a top fueler. Only national event that car has won. Learned from that Woody Gilmore car about chassis sag.

Ackerman geometry is set at 1" stagger. But I do add or take out a inch now and then.

Yes sir, the center of our lane is our only concern. Except the last 66' of the race track.
In bracket racing knowing how much time, you and your competitor spent in the last 66'. That's bracket racing

Have fun. Enjoy



 

Online wideopen231

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2019, 12:56:43 PM »
we have won a lot of events bracket racing, only thing we fight is if the track starts to go away in the later rounds it seems to affect us before the red,door car guys.

The crew chief in me says no problem,just drive the thing. The driver says set it up so its not issue that your job ALBERT! Man those two have always fought !
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline mfracing

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2019, 06:52:52 AM »
Raced mine for 5 years as a bracket car.  Hardest thing for me is to keep the engine temp consistent from round to round, without running any water.  This past weekend, made 7 passes between 8.420 - 8.439 on a track with 138 temp.  Have to work the car and get it setup.  Then its up to the driver to drive the finish line.  Good luck. 


Offline tcoupekyle

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2019, 05:37:08 AM »
I found this a very interesting post. Judy thought I'd say that.
Kyle

Online wideopen231

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2019, 07:57:04 AM »
I am hoping I can control temp with richening and leanout valve I have in system. I have run injected dry motors for years in bracket cars and never had a temp issue,except making sure I have enough. I have a chart that should help me make predictions due to engine temps same as weather changes. Plus holding a cpl is norm and knowing I will have to shed them at finish line.                If temps creep up I just have to know I have 1 or 2 more to shed. If it was easy it would be boring,but cashing checks never boring.LMAO
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline BK

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Re: negatives of FED as bracket car?
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2019, 04:25:22 PM »
When I bracket raced mine it had a hand brake.
I think a brake pedal would have been a little easier for working the finish line.