FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: codysisson on February 21, 2014, 05:03:53 AM
-
I have read the NHRA rules on battery placement however I still cannot determine if I can put the battery behind the seat in a metal box. I have a chute pack body on a FED. The rules say if the battery is moved to the rear, you must build a firewall or a sealed box. Can anyone clarify this for me? I am using a sealed AGM small format battery.
Thank you,
Cody
-
With chute body you m ay not really need the battery that far back. Body will add lot of rear weight anyway and part of that will be hanging behind you.. i also have chute body and know its heavier then I thought,which is why I have full chute and short body's for car. I have two location for battery.One just a head of motor and behind tank at front,could not fit into nose or I would have. IMO its one of the biggest balance pieces on the car.
I will satrt out with mine in front and if car does not pull the wheels any I will move to front of motor.Whi ch I like best as it means less cable which means less weight plus better power to starter with short cable.
If after dozen or so runs and I fill motor is tuned out and the car is still not pulling front wheels cpl inches I will look at moving it back.With my fat 215 lb butt sitting behind axle I do not think it will be issue.
If you are running wheelie bars remember thats more weight out back.If running battery probably 35 plus pounds in rear with chute body and anything except skeleton driver I would have wheelie bars.
Roo man would be good bet for some tips on the rules and weight distribution.
-
I had the same dilema. I considered putting it between / under my seatpan / axle as theres a void there where the battery could be housed in a cradle and dropped out from below. After fooling about trying to make a clean set up, I decided I needed to have it up front but could not stomach seeing it in the open rails
We considered two options, one was to use 2 x 6v 3 cell packs in series and hide them behind the side panels next to the motor but we discounted this as the diaper made it difficult and would be in a hot area.
Second option which we went for was a removeable cradle just ahead of the motor which slung the battery low and within the profile of the chassis but which was further hidden by a breather tank scalloped internally to cover the battery. My first effort used an old Ford vacuum tank but I may replace it.. I think I'll be remaking this tank from scratch now I have a shrinker / stretch to make nice formed ends.
Another option to consider is a small motorcycle 12v battery under the cowl to run electircs and start from a slave.
-
On Mark Vaught's car we have an aircraft starter so the only electrical power needed is to run the various solenoids, tail light and the data logger. We use an 18 volt tool battery and it works great. The mounting base for it is made by Mike Berry, the pro stock motorcycle racer and it is a little "spendy". If you had an old dead battery drill or such I would bet that you could salvage the requisite parts from it to save some $$$.
If you are using a larger unit the sealed batteries should be legal as is but I would put it in a box just to be safe in tech. I have seen a lot of pro mods recently with the batteries in the cockpit so they are getting away with it.
Roo
-
Cody I would think you would want to keep as much weight as possible off the rear of the car . There are some pretty small batteries that you can mount way up front . Look at Jegs on line at batteries there are a lot of choices . Bill
-
Our battery is in the nose of our car. Optima full size and adds 40+ to the nose. Cables are in the top frame rails.
-
Thank you all for the great feedback!!
I would prefer to start the car from an external source and eliminate a starter battery however the rules state that I have to "self Start". I was hoping to keep the battery/mag disconnect switch in the rear along with the battery to eliminate a remote cable and forward disconnect switch. I too was a little concerned about the weight in the back however the battery I am using is a 15lb AGM small format so it is quite small.
I guess I can try it and if it does not seem to work out, I can always move it.
Thank you all again!
Cody
-
You can be self starting, Point to the start button on the dash ,just dont take the battery with you. They could be referencing no axilerary starters
-
I think the rules are saying...no push starts. Start batteries can be on a cart, ATV or whatever
you towed the car to the staging lanes with.
-
I think the rules are saying...no push starts. Start batteries can be on a cart, ATV or whatever
you towed the car to the staging lanes with.
not entirely true, i know for nhra's top dragster you must have an onboard starter, a block or mid plate mounted starter. What the rules are for is to try and get rid of blower starters and the time it takes to use them. Put them on, prime, start ( hopefully only once) remove and get the vehicle holding starter and battery pack out of the way. The whole process takes to long for top dragster or top sportsman, which i find weird cause its alright if a AA/PM wants to run in comp and use a blower starter.
Im sure you can run along the edge of the rules if you want and have a block mounted starter BUT have the battery pack on your tow vehicle like AF150 sorta mentioned. But im also sure if your losing opponent was to raise enough fuse during his lose it would become more of a problem then its worth to carry the extra few pounds for a battery
-
not to hijack the initial question.
So NE II and Super Comp, do you have to be self starting with a battery on board?? I am running a block starter.
-
Thank you all again for the great feedback. What a breath of fresh air having this resource from all angles. I don't feel so alone doing this project!
I'm off to Bakersfield next week. I hope to see a lot of rigs and get more ideas.
-
I used one of these batteries on my shifter kart for the electric water pump and gauges.. Light weight and small. Check it out.
http://www.ballisticparts.com/
-
is there a website for the cordless drill adapter. I am not finding when searching under Mike Berry. Also are does the unit step the voltage down to 12 volts from 18 volt??
-
is there a website for the cordless drill adapter. I am not finding when searching under Mike Berry. Also are does the unit step the voltage down to 12 volts from 18 volt??
Try these guys,
http://www.neilparks.com/chassis/powersupplies.htm
Roo
-
I just put this small Braille battery in my car. It weighs 17 lbs and has 722 cranking amps . My old battery weighed 38 lbs and was mounted further back in the chassis . I am hoping it will start the car with no assist
-
thanks for the link. Wow nice setup on the battery.
-
(http://www.leverfamilysite.com/images/2010_Dragster/Progress_2010_08_15/P8030081.jpg)
-
I just put this small Braille battery in my car. It weighs 17 lbs and has 722 cranking amps . My old battery weighed 38 lbs and was mounted further back in the chassis . I am hoping it will start the car with no assist
Very curious if this battery set-up worked out ?
I’m dealing with battery location issues, I don’t mind paying a lot for a battery and charging between rounds or even swapping batteries !
But very curious how well it cranks a high comp eng.
… Oh, BTW, Hello …… I’m New to FED.ORG
-
We put a red top Optima in the nose of our 223" FED. We needed the weight and needed a battery for starting.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/shop/redtop/optima-batteries-8078-109-78-redtop-starting-battery-sideposts-only/
-
My battery is mounted in the open behind the seat. But that was easy as it's a K88 style knock off. The tech guy at the local track seemed okay with it's placement.
-
I just put this small Braille battery in my car. It weighs 17 lbs and has 722 cranking amps . My old battery weighed 38 lbs and was mounted further back in the chassis . I am hoping it will start the car with no assist
Very curious if this battery set-up worked out ?
I’m dealing with battery location issues, I don’t mind paying a lot for a battery and charging between rounds or even swapping batteries !
But very curious how well it cranks a high comp eng.
… Oh, BTW, Hello …… I’m New to FED.ORG
The Braille battery has worked very well for me . I charge it between rounds and have had no issues with it . My motor has close to 15 to 1 compression and it starts every time . I also run an MSD ignition and an electric trans brake . People tell me that the Will draw too much and I will have low voltage at the end of a run . I went 182 with the car 2 weeks ago so I don't think that it is an issue. Bill
-
With our JrFuel car I'm always looking to save weight, because the rules are 3.5 lbs/ ci, with driver. So we use a remote battery pack, plug-in, prime the injectors, start the car un-plug, head for the water-box. I do use an on-board Lithium-ion light weight 12 amp battery [ one lb] to power the transbrake and RacePak computer. I discovered this one pound battery when we were setting up the chassis for the all iron early Hemi, and looking to cut some weight. We saved 6 pounds by using the Lithium-ion battery, we only charge the battery at the shop, not at the track. Since the battery worked so good for 4 years, I made a remote Lithium-ion battery pack [ two 12 volt batteries in series ] for starting the engine. We need 24 volts to start my 16;1 compression SBC or Hemi, and spin the 20 amp MSD mag fast enough.
The remote start pack weights, with carry case and cables just under 10 lbs [ my crew loves me]. We only charge at the the track after we are done running for the day if we are starting the motor allot looking for some issue.
If you want to see what the remote battery pack looks like check-out my Haydenent.com site. Now if you want to have the option of on-board battery for starting, just keep in mind the 24 volt system only weighs less than 10 #.
As far as battery placement, put it up front if you need or have ballast on the front end, if not put it under the rear-end for more bite.
I have most guys don't carry enough weight on the front end. I have told guys with problems with the car not going straight to add 20 lb to the front and they went quicker/ faster. Most older dragsters have the motor close to the rear-end [ 36-38"] that's from the rear motor plate to the center of the axles. They were built that way before VHT, looking for more traction. Now some guys have trouble with wheelies, with the older style chassis designs.
Our JrFueler has a motor location of 48" since 1997.
Jon
-
With the 24 volt startup, what had to be done to the starter for it to survive? and how often does the pack need charged?
-
With the 24 volt startup, what had to be done to the starter for it to survive? and how often does the pack need charged?
on my car we ran a TCI 35110 starter from 1998 to 2011 and the only thing that ever happened was we would need to change the starter drive every three years or so... We did carry a spare but the original starter motor and solenoid lasted.
-
With the 24 volt startup, what had to be done to the starter for it to survive? and how often does the pack need charged?
Shouldn't have to do anything. Most starter solenoids are rated for 36 volts already. I've seen less breakage and better starting.
-
With the 24 volt startup, what had to be done to the starter for it to survive? and how often does the pack need charged?
Troy, it seems like quality 12V starters are OK to take the beat of 24V in short durations and with enough cooling time between cranking. Can't speak for warranty coverage though.
-
No changes in the starter are required, we use an aftermarket "race" starter, mostly because they are smaller/ lighter. If the starter has the right alignment with the right shims, the starter has lasted for over 6 years with us.
If we started the motor over 10 times in a day, we would charge the batteries at the end of the day while we were working on the car and packing it up into the trailer, just to make sure it was fully charged. Most of the time we just charged the batteries at the shop and it would be good for the weekend.
Jon
-
If only using a small battery for on-board power (not starting) is a Remote Cutoff Switch still required at the rear of the chassis ?
-
I think you have to have one if you are using an on board battery . I know it wont hut the car off if you run a mag but it will kill electrical power to the rest of the car . I guess to help prevent a fire .
-
I think the battery kill switch is for cars with distributor , not needed if running a mag
-
Lots of goo ideas on batteries and saving weight. I have a distributor in my FED but my other car has a Mag and I use a Flaming River combination battery and Mag kill switch.
-
Lots of goo ideas on batteries and saving weight. I have a distributor in my FED but my other car has a Mag and I use a Flaming River combination battery and Mag kill switch.
With a full size battery on board I also run the Flaming River main power & Mag kill switch. It is mounted between the mid plate and the fire wall. I would never mount a battery on the drivers side of the fire wall.
-
We also use the Flaming River mag and battery switch. Works great....
We have an XSPower AGM 16volt battery on board. We charge it up at the shop prior to an event and it will last the entire event with no need to recharge.