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Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: Sidewinder on March 04, 2013, 02:43:39 PM

Title: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on March 04, 2013, 02:43:39 PM
We was very pleased after todays workshop
Got a good start making the new manifold for my flathead.
Next up is for me to grind the portholes smooth and to match the block.
Roger is gona make a 1 1/2" tall plenum with the pop-off/burstpanel pointing forward this time
After we have fitted the plenum, we'r gona make the bracket for the blower-belt tensioner. We also need to make some supports for it and for the plenum. Last is to make holes for oil filler and breathers.
Have gotten some heads-up regarding port nozzles, so we'r gona make provitions for them

Kjell

Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: GlennLever on March 04, 2013, 06:35:00 PM
I like!

Keep the updates coming!
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: KING CHASSIS on March 05, 2013, 08:10:29 PM
 I love homemade stuff.   Keep us up dated buddy.   See ya in a couple of years Kjell.
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on March 08, 2013, 08:32:09 PM
Sidewinder – sorry so slow to respond.  I had gone back home to islands this week for family business, was pre-occupied all week long.  Back in Colorado now.  Thanks for your comment on my intro, yep have a funny location for seating on 999 car but is very comfortable with nice view.
 
Burst panel pointing forward sounds good, little safer direction for you and also helps set the intake manifold height.   You could go with a little lower intake manifold height if you designed burst panel at angle (laying back) versus straight up 90 degrees from top of block.  I’m guessing it will be set straight up 90 degrees so you have more clearance with your Baron Racing Heads, they’re tall ones.  I think you already accepted your vision down track will be obscured  : )
   
Heard before it’s good idea for port nozzles in addition to your hat nozzles with nitro.  I think the closer to the intake valve you can locate the better.  (You might ask “Spud here” for his thoughts on port nozzle placement).  With fh, it’s little bit more challenge compared to oh valve to design.  You and your crew chief probably already know this…..  port nozzles on fh can be a piston saver.  I’ve heard from “excellent source” the four outside corners pistons run a little hotter/leaner than the four middle pistons.  Keep one eyeball on it, or you might melt a piston top (actually another good question for you to ask “Spud” how to read spark plugs to prevent melting your piston with 20 lbs boost on 50%+).
 
Remember how the four outside cylinders’ exhaust are cast and wrap around the cylinders as part of the block casting…..   creates more heat.  Plus with 4-71, wide open the hat nozzles (2 or 4 nozzles?) might help some cylinders run little bit richer than others (again, another question you might ask “Spud”  i.e. rotor clearances, stripped or not, size 4-71 vs. 14-71, how affects fuel distribution).
   
You’ll have fun troubleshooting and adjusting (increasing) size of port nozzles to compensate for leaner cylinders.  Port nozzles aren’t like slicks, they don’t have to match exactly  : )   DF



Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on March 09, 2013, 05:29:59 AM
Thanks DF:)
You are spot-on. I was thingking of placeing the pop-off/burstpanel slightly downwards or uppwards, to save some space. The plenum will be made with an angle to match the flow towards the outher runners. I'm gona bring the intake to Roger to weld some moore, as i have grinded off abit;)
I have looked at the port nozzle angles, and I think they will match the runner angle and spray straight down towards the ports in the block.
At the moment we have 4x64A Hilborns in the hat. The port nozzles will come a litlebit later. We'r gona tune it with straigt alky, and then we shall see if we switch to pops:)! It's gona be interesting to see if the fuel distribution is working with this design!?:)

Kjell
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: GlennLever on March 09, 2013, 09:23:29 AM
There is also a Mini brust panel. I thought of usinging in my application but was unsure how track inspectors would look at it

"SFI approved mini burst panel. This panel is a must for high boost applications and will keep the supercharger and manifold damage to a minimum. If the engine over revs or engine tune up is not at maximum performance. Mini panel measures 4.250" x 2.375" and has eighteen mounting holes. "

http://www.rbssuperchargers.com/Products.cfm?pn=2000-0001M&pID=8353

(http://www.rbssuperchargers.com/images_temp/350350101thumb_MIN_20PANEL.jpg)
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on March 09, 2013, 06:47:10 PM
Sidewinder - yes, when she together and ready for 1st outing, I’m guessing alky should work hunky-dory.  Each pass will provide more confidence. 
"Excellent source” shared with me on his blown injected fh, straight alky ran so smooth once dialed in (like bracket car).  Then switching to “pop” look out as that’s when “trouble” reared its ugly head (lean-rich cylinders imbalance), but worth it, et-mph wise.  Your crew chief knows, best to ease into “snap crackle pop” and adjusting timing to hit the mark : )   I know it's a way off but fun to "dream" about it : )
   
You might consider asking “Spud” for his thoughts too on your plenum design.   He probably already knows what works good, and more importantly, what will work better for 4-71, and 255-286 cubic inches.  I only spoke to him once on the phone, and can tell he has it together upstairs.   

Glenn – I didn’t know about those baby burst panels.  Ideal to pair them up, one on each side versus a larger one in front……  simple way to lower plenum height.   Seems to me two panels opposite and inline with intake ports is better design than just one in front.  DF
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on March 18, 2013, 03:10:16 PM
Thanks Glenn & DF on your inputs!:) Spud has answerd me on some magneto issues, so now I have solved foult nr. 3. With all these issues solved I'm optomostic on taking the "winder" faster down the track:) Last year we whent to the HAMB drags, I bought a couple of pop-off plates, one Cragar and one Weiand (say-why-and), and was thinking of useing the Weiand, and switch to burst. I thinks they have the same size.
We have made new rules, so pop-off is still leagel here:)
The plenum might not be perfect or 100% ideal, but there are some stuff we need to compromise on. We plan to have the plenum approx. 1- 1 1/2 inch high abowe the runners. Roger has the intake now for some more welding, but hope to have it back soon for some more grinding, then he could fit the plenum. We allready had the top-plate, as it acted as a spacer on the old one:)
Anyone have any idea what sparkplugs to start with? NGK BP5ES? I have allways used Champion on my gas engines.

Kjell
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on March 19, 2013, 12:32:19 PM
Sidewinder - I’ve only made a few parts from aluminum alloy, always used 6061-T651.  Though my mid-plate for the six is 7075-T651.  I’m probably luckier than most, as there is an aluminum recycling business a few miles down the road.  They have new, used, leftover just about anything you can think of, round, tube, square, flat, etc.   They’ll also do minor cutting and braking for you.  They sell by the pound, and I’m usually spending under $20 for what I need.  They have these racks with small cut pieces, usually can take my cardboard template and match up a pre-cut piece real easy.
 
I’d have to say of all the things I’ve had to do on the dragster, ranking right up there is deciding and designing those little aluminum pieces are most fun.  Your making a blower intake, lots more fun, and more complicated.  That’s one definition of the word “custom.”    DF         


Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: ricardo1967 on March 19, 2013, 05:12:44 PM
Thanks Glenn & DF on your inputs!:) Spud has answerd me on some magneto issues, so now I have solved foult nr. 3. With all these issues solved I'm optomostic on taking the "winder" faster down the track:) Last year we whent to the HAMB drags, I bought a couple of pop-off plates, one Cragar and one Weiand (say-why-and), and was thinking of useing the Weiand, and switch to burst. I thinks they have the same size.
We have made new rules, so pop-off is still leagel here:)
The plenum might not be perfect or 100% ideal, but there are some stuff we need to compromise on. We plan to have the plenum approx. 1- 1 1/2 inch high abowe the runners. Roger has the intake now for some more welding, but hope to have it back soon for some more grinding, then he could fit the plenum. We allready had the top-plate, as it acted as a spacer on the old one:)
Anyone have any idea what sparkplugs to start with? NGK BP5ES? I have allways used Champion on my gas engines.

Kjell

Sidewinder - I'd think that the NGK BP5ES plugs are a little too warm for a racing environment. Even some factory cars in Brazil were fitted with colder NGK BP6ES or even NGK BP7ES (for ethanol, with 12.3:1 compression). I personally have gone as cold as '9' on street/strip turbocharged engines. The FED currently has NGK R5672A-9 on an alky SBC 400, AFR 220 heads, with ~12.5:1 compression.
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Garyr on April 06, 2013, 07:48:18 AM
I would recommend "9"s by NGK they are very easy to read on the threads. Keep the boost levels down on the flatty as you only have 3 mains . We ren a bonneville car with a dry sump system and you can't put too much oil pressure on it because it'll leak by the pan seals.
Good luck the manifold looks better than the ones I make out of 4bbl manifolds.
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: wideopen231 on April 06, 2013, 12:57:52 PM
The sheet metal on my new car is one I made. Did little different. I started with 1/2" thick pice aluminum and machined it to match ports.

  I bolted a set of heads down to block,molted the new flanges to heads and then added the runner I had formed around a wooden block I shaped for match what i wanted runners to be.This way i had 8 runners the same size and shape.

  I then trimmed tops of runners and made a valley plate for each side. Iwent a welded as much of the bottom of runners and flanges as I could. I then removed and fished welding the rest.
  Re bolted to head and added valley plates and then finished of the fron and rear of valley.
  Next I added a top plate to allow me to bolt my injector to. Ive got some cleanup of welds and little surface prpep and it will be ready to rock n roll

Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on April 06, 2013, 05:11:29 PM
I would recommend "9"s by NGK they are very easy to read on the threads. Keep the boost levels down on the flatty as you only have 3 mains . We ren a bonneville car with a dry sump system and you can't put too much oil pressure on it because it'll leak by the pan seals.
Good luck the manifold looks better than the ones I make out of 4bbl manifolds.

Thank's for Your advice Garyr:) So far no leaks, With 80-90 psi of oil pressure (wet system).
Our current set-up gives us 24 psi of boost. I know this is alot for the 3 mains, but we have chosen good Products in the bottem end.
We have a Moldex billet crank With large journals on the connecting rods. Thoose are Crower I-profile ones. Custom Ross pistons that are coated. Total seal, gapless rings.
To match this we choose a one off Crower cam With roller lifters. Oh forgot to tell you about the cutom billet mains an girdle.
I did some grinding on the inntake today, and hope to do some more Welding soon, as spring is around the corner:)
48 New ARP bolts is on it's way too, so we can mount the new Baron Heads:)

Kjell

Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: GlennLever on April 06, 2013, 08:18:22 PM
I would recommend "9"s by NGK they are very easy to read on the threads. Keep the boost levels down on the flatty as you only have 3 mains . We ren a bonneville car with a dry sump system and you can't put too much oil pressure on it because it'll leak by the pan seals.
Good luck the manifold looks better than the ones I make out of 4bbl manifolds.

Thank's for Your advice Garyr:) So far no leaks, With 80-90 psi of oil pressure (wet system).
Our current set-up gives us 24 psi of boost. I know this is alot for the 3 mains, but we have chosen good Products in the bottem end.
We have a Moldex billet crank With large journals on the connecting rods. Thoose are Crower I-profile ones. Custom Ross pistons that are coated. Total seal, gapless rings.
To match this we choose a one off Crower cam With roller lifters. Oh forgot to tell you about the cutom billet mains an girdle.
I did some grinding on the inntake today, and hope to do some more Welding soon, as spring is around the corner:)
48 New ARP bolts is on it's way too, so we can mount the new Baron Heads:)

Kjell

There is a flat head hinding in there somewhere!
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on April 07, 2013, 02:23:53 AM
YES ;D!

K
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on April 07, 2013, 06:32:37 AM
Sidewinder -  A+ on choice of parts  : )  DF

Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: masracingtd1167 on April 07, 2013, 07:34:44 AM
Wow that's some wild looking crankshaft ! Is that some kind of girdle on the center main?
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on April 07, 2013, 03:30:51 PM
Thanks DF:) Then A+ means that I can graduate With honor?:)

masracingtd1167; Yes it's Our own  home made Girdle, Baron style. Made of a chunk of high strength Carbon steel.
We hope it will keep the crank in it's Place:) The Moldex crank has 4 1/8 " stroke, and With 3 11/32" bore, we have 290 cid.

I delivered the inntake to Roger for som final Welding today, so now I will do som work on the heads;)

K
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on April 08, 2013, 06:32:30 AM
Thus far, I’d say yes  : )   Nice lookin rear main cap!  DF
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on May 05, 2013, 02:15:45 AM
Latest update.
After Roger did some welding AGAIN! I finally got something done today! Did what I do best, grind, grind, grind....! ;D
Now I just have to go down to Roger for some finish welding!
We are really optimistic about this intake!?
We have to weld inn some extensions on the bolt holes that's on the outer ports.

Kjell
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on May 05, 2013, 12:44:40 PM
Sorry :-[ Just abit satisfied today ;D managed to sand and finish polishing the intake today ;D

Kjell
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: GlennLever on May 05, 2013, 12:57:37 PM
Sorry :-[ Just abit satisfied today ;D managed to sand and finish polishing the intake today ;D

Kjell

That is going to be something to see around, NICE!
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on May 06, 2013, 02:32:14 PM
Sidewinder - thanks for posting pictures.  Looks good from my perspective, you been busy the past month : )  DF
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on May 07, 2013, 12:15:49 AM
Thanks guys:)

Yes have been busy, but really have not done so much on the dragster. My "sister" from the US stayed with us for a month, then the Big spring cleaning in the house, two weekends with large garage-sale!! ;)
Between all this I managed to get the 49 ford running again, then sold it. So now I hope to get some more quality time with the dragster:)! I think I have all the parts I need for the upgrade, ARP even had to make more head studs ;D

K
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on June 02, 2013, 02:50:23 PM
Looks like we are getting closer to fire up the "killer" again
Got the intake back from Roger yesterday, and on the way home I swung by my friends garage to mock up the intake and see if it fitted.
Today I managed to do final grinding and polishing.
Also got to make a new intake gasket, and hope it will hold the pressure.
We hope to start mounting the engine back together this week.

K
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: masracingtd1167 on June 02, 2013, 03:00:47 PM
Looks great Tim  . I found a couple of flat head pictures for you
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Dolmetsch on June 02, 2013, 07:18:42 PM
There is a word that keeps popping up here I love. "MAKE" My hat is off to you.
When we raced serious in the 90s my nephew who was the "shoe" asked me one day. "Unc Don why do you make stuff when we could buy it.?" I was stunned. We were leading the points at the time . My only answer was "Huh?". Nice to see you working away at this . It looks good . Wish you nothing but success.
Don
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on July 28, 2013, 03:34:58 AM
Thanks guys:)

Sorry for the late reply, have been busy for a while.
Trying to sort some stuff out. Magneto issue is fixed for now, but need to modify my own.
Intake worked fine, but needs to me braced as the top plate flexed when we tightened down the blower.
I borrowed a magneto with 0. degrees of advance, and simply changed the neck from my mag. to fit the Flathead:)

K
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on August 12, 2013, 01:56:54 PM
Hello guys:)

Intake is now braced and mounted:) Looks even better:)
Magneto is back and we made a new clamp/support as the old clamp failed once;)
Has set-up the injection and started it, sound better:) We'll take it out for a spin tomorrow if the weather allowe us..

K
 
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on August 16, 2013, 02:19:29 PM
Sorry for the late update ;) After all the latest modifications, the Flathead finally has started to respond:)
Next time i will Mount the wheelie bars:)

K
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on August 17, 2013, 07:51:52 AM
Sidewinder - excellent !  I can't quite make out the moon tho : )  DF 
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: wideopen231 on August 17, 2013, 11:14:07 AM
from photo I would say it might need 1.5 lb.s on the nose ;D
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Dolmetsch on August 17, 2013, 11:36:00 AM
Love your test track. I don't have the nerve for that anymore. Thumbs up on your success!
Don
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on August 19, 2013, 01:31:39 PM
Thanks guys ;D

Testntunetothemoon it was:) Next time I will inform NASA:)
while waiting for the next race, I get to paint the enclosed trailer, finally:)
And do some polishing for my friend and master craftsman Roger:)
Currently building a Brough Suprior SS80 Kustom bike..


Kjell
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on August 23, 2013, 07:40:11 AM
K - have to ask..... what's a Brough Suprior ?  Is it a drag bike ?  DF
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on August 24, 2013, 02:56:27 AM
Sorry :) should be: Brough Superior SS80:) Not a dragbike this time, but a racer,YES:)
Search for "Old Bill" Brough on google. Not that bike, but the bike is the inspiration.

K

Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on August 25, 2013, 04:35:22 PM
K – Model SS80 from 1922, many many years ago.  Has classy lines, well made “like grandparents” much inspiration there.  Didn’t know they had 1000cc waaay back then.  I have old project bike too… mine dust collector : )  DF   
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on November 21, 2013, 01:26:14 PM
Looks like a cool project DF:) Winter here, means new stuff to do..:) Roger finished the bike, trailer is done, pulley system up next. But Roger has a Gasser T that need to finish this winter too!:)

K
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: denverflatheader on November 23, 2013, 07:32:31 AM
K - We got winter here too, probably more like your summer though.  Enjoyed seeing your pictures, Brough Superior "nicely done."  Only thing I did lately was ordered and received this week custom SS bends from Ted, aka 225digger here (Ted has excellent customer service, product and price.  He got all three categories covered).  Now I have 1.50, 1.75 and soon will have set of 2.00 inch zoomies.  Plus one of our club members and good friend asked me if I’d sell pontiac red to him, so I let it go, gonna miss that car!  Good to hear crewchief building a T race car…. I hope for himself and fh powered : )  DF
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: GlennLever on November 23, 2013, 09:29:33 AM
K - We got winter here too, probably more like your summer though.  Enjoyed seeing your pictures, Brough Superior "nicely done."  Only thing I did lately was ordered and received this week custom SS bends from Ted, aka 225digger here (Ted has excellent customer service, product and price.  He got all three categories covered).  Now I have 1.50, 1.75 and soon will have set of 2.00 inch zoomies.  Plus one of our club members and good friend asked me if I’d sell pontiac red to him, so I let it go, gonna miss that car!  Good to hear crewchief building a T race car…. I hope for himself and fh powered : )  DF

Wind chill is supposed to be 0 today (later) and it is snowing right now.
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: Sidewinder on November 24, 2013, 03:36:31 AM
Here is the best run of the season;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eT1EBP4_Lw
Title: Re: Making a intake manifold for my 4-71 blower
Post by: GlennLever on November 24, 2013, 08:44:44 AM
What was the problem at the start?

Love the old sun gauges. Currently selling a bunch on Fee-Bay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221315855832?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Sun-Gauges-Blue-Green-Line-Lot-brackets-bulbs-instructions-manuals-panels-/00/s/MTA2NlgxNjAw/z/4hQAAOxy3zNSgomt/$_57.JPG)