FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: afaulk on February 15, 2013, 03:31:13 PM
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:P They always say, "I don't like sitting on top of that rear end housing". I tell them "I just take both hands and put my left one over there and then I take both hands and put my right one over there, then you're all set". They reply, "mine ain't that big". Maybe thats their problem? 8)
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Darn guys, I'm sorry. Meant to post under FEDs . Duhh ::)
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When I first started building my fed I had a post on DRR. Man you would think I was the anti Christ.Most commnet where about ilhandling. Yes alot where about thier jewels sitting right over rearend. I know we all have heard the thousands of stories about late model rearends coming apart and exploding. Not sure I have heard of one in 28 years of racing and mostly top alcohol cars.Dropping clutch at 6000 rpm with 3000 hp on tap tends to stress rearend gears pretty good.
When I hear "I don't want my set sitting that close to rearend gears" my reply have to have aset first.
I know my biggest problem is going to be not being smarta-- everytime I put one of those guys on the trailer.If you knew me you would know its hard to controll that part of me anyway.
Im dying to get mine on track and kick some 4 link RED butts.
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Two year's ago I tore the pinion right out of mine . The force of it bent my motor plate forward about 3 inches ! So what did we do We borrowed a center section straightened out th motor plate and raced the next day ! I think those people are right there really is something wrong with us but it's too late to change now !
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Its called type T personality. Some say they walk the line and some of us just have to step over at times to see if we can back quick enough.
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i passed(lost) one up 10 yrs. 2 yrs ago wife wanted another horse. ok by me. looking for my next winter engine project and remembered the fed. found one on c/l in cali and haven't looked back. door car sits in the tent now, lonesome, w/o an engine.
our first time racing we broke the dedenbear glide. 2nd time out,my son drove, did 11 passes. the more he drove it, the more he likes it. we take it out to car shows, throw the kids and adults in it. we start it up for them. love to watch the faces. i tell them how many of you are going to get to sit in a fed. i tell them real men drive front engine dragster. lot of fun racing and car shows with it. i love it.
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Real men drive Front Engine Dragsters
(A tee shirt at Garlits Museum)
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/REAL-WOMEN-MARRY-MEN-WHO-DRIVE-FRONT-ENGINE-DRAGSTERS-decal-/251226681002?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a7e46eeaa&vxp=mtr
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NO GUTS NO GLORY>>>>>>> GOLD RUSH..
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The first comment of course is about the rear axel center section. I can't believe just how many people are so conserned about losing the race if the center section breaks.
;D ;D ;D
The secong comment is how do you keep it stright? (92" wheel base)
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CHRISMAN had a rear end break loose on him and resulted in very serious groin injurys. build it to stringent SFI or better spec's and inspect all tubes/welds after each weekend racing in especially critical areas. be safe and have fun.
bob
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Definitely the rear-end, but when I show them every thing I did when I built the rear they seem to change their mind. I guess maybe I was the same way and that reflex how I built It, but I can honestly say nothing short of an act of god is anything getting to " The Boys".
I know I could have saved alot of weight in this area but I don't skimp on safety, so I guess you could say I over engineered it. Never understood how a 1/8 piece of flat stock on the back of the housing behind the ring gear would do anything. So mine looks like a fabbed rear with 1/2 an 3/8 plate shielding, double flange mounts and 8 1/2" grade 8 bolts holding it in the car.
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The real danger of the rear used to be when they ran open rears and the spider gear's and pins broke . With the spool's we use now they are pretty safe
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Real men drive Front Engine Dragsters
(A tee shirt at Garlits Museum)
[/quote
real pretty women drive fed too you know?
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Definitely the rear-end, but when I show them every thing I did when I built the rear they seem to change their mind. I guess maybe I was the same way and that reflex how I built It, but I can honestly say nothing short of an act of god is anything getting to " The Boys".
I know I could have saved alot of weight in this area but I don't skimp on safety, so I guess you could say I over engineered it. Never understood how a 1/8 piece of flat stock on the back of the housing behind the ring gear would do anything. So mine looks like a fabbed rear with 1/2 an 3/8 plate shielding, double flange mounts and 8 1/2" grade 8 bolts holding it in the car.
That's a really good looking rear end mount. Good looking chassis also.
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NO GUTS NO GLORY>>>>>>> GOLD RUSH..
More ball's than brain's >>>>>>Us guy's !
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Real men drive Front Engine Dragsters
(A tee shirt at Garlits Museum)
[/quote
real pretty women drive fed too you know?
Yes there were some women
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thanks, last yr was the first full season on the car. Only took me 9 yrs to finish!! Had the old problem of either no time or no money. The great thing about building a nostalgia car is no matter how long it take to finish, it will still be a nostalgai car.
Here is a pic of the day all of the hard work paid off. July,31 2011 First full pass on the car 9.03 @ 148.2
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When people say I'm crazy, I just smile and say " No, I'm getting smarter, I used to race a motorcycle"
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thanks, last yr was the first full season on the car. Only took me 9 yrs to finish!! Had the old problem of either no time or no money. The great thing about building a nostalgia car is no matter how long it take to finish, it will still be a nostalgai car.
Here is a pic of the day all of the hard work paid off. July,31 2011 First full pass on the car 9.03 @ 148.2
Dude...nice picture, nice car and looks like a nice straight launch. Congrats!
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thanks, last yr was the first full season on the car. Only took me 9 yrs to finish!! Had the old problem of either no time or no money. The great thing about building a nostalgia car is no matter how long it take to finish, it will still be a nostalgai car.
Here is a pic of the day all of the hard work paid off. July,31 2011 First full pass on the car 9.03 @ 148.2
Very nice, your up there in the air, launch that way every time?
(http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=228.0;attach=715;image)
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Yep, she'll hang the hoops everytime. Thank god for wheelie bars. Just started a new thread in Roomans seection to see about help with the short times.
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Been building almost 2 years and same darn reasons. I hope I finish lot quicker than you did,nothing personal there dude. Car looks great.
I ready to hammer mine down the track. Nothing about $5000 will not cure is all thats holding me back.
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Hang in there man, its well worth the wait. At times I thougt it would never be done, hense the name "Pipe Dreams". I'm sure I could have finished sooner but I've always wanted a FED since I was about 5 and I wasn't going to skimp.
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Been building almost 2 years and same darn reasons. I hope I finish lot quicker than you did,nothing personal there dude. Car looks great.
I ready to hammer mine down the track. Nothing about $5000 will not cure is all thats holding me back.
No cussing.
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Been building almost 2 years and same darn reasons. I hope I finish lot quicker than you did,nothing personal there dude. Car looks great.
I ready to hammer mine down the track. Nothing about $5000 will not cure is all thats holding me back.
No cussing. ?????? What did he say?
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Been building almost 2 years and same darn reasons. I hope I finish lot quicker than you did,nothing personal there dude. Car looks great.
I ready to hammer mine down the track. Nothing about $5000 will not cure is all thats holding me back.
No cussing. ?????? What did he say?
I substituted "darn" for the offending word. The no cussing rule, I think, just adds class to the forum. We can use the English language to express ourselfs, even it I cannot spell it.
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sorry glen it general contractor habbit.You can express yourself w/o but in construction people don't listen 99% of the time unless you express yourself with it.
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sorry glen it general contractor habbit.You can express yourself w/o but in construction people don't listen 99% of the time unless you express yourself with it.
I fully understand and when away form this forum I have been known to use the same language. It is a fresh breeze to come here and not hear it and we don't need it between ourselves.
Thanks for understanding.
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Well darn... Going out on a limb, here, I'm gonna comment on that Shirley Muldowney photo, and with the greatest respect and appreciation for her, I say, "No bra, no problem!"
Profanity is what it is, but Political Correctness is what it ain't.
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And I think the $5000 part of that post was obscene as well. Can we edit that down somewhat? It's a little too close to the truth for me... Can we get these darn costs down???
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CHRISMAN had a rear end break loose on him and resulted in very serious groin injurys. build it to stringent SFI or better spec's and inspect all tubes/welds after each weekend racing in especially critical areas. be safe and have fun.
bob
Hi,
New guy here. Just tripped over the place. This thread got me to thinking about an old friend and Bob's post triggered it.
This is meant to be a teaching moment so bear with me.
In the early 70s as a pup I raced a Jr Fuel car. The real version with 97% nitro. There were a lot of them back then with circuits everywhere. A friend of mine managed to lose his life in a grisly way to a rear end and it was senseless. There was a line of thinking that "light is right". This is cool as long as it doesn't become unsafe.
This took place at Motion Raceway in Assumption IL. We were running with the TF class. Yup, weekly TF shows were the norm then and we could run with them and win also but that's another story.
My friend was making his pass as I was sitting on the roller starters waiting my turn. I heard the car leave, the rpm climb, he pedaled then silence, then more rpm, more silence, etc. It was obvious something was wrong and then I heard a crash. My crew guy who was watching down track dropped his head, turned and signaled me to call it a day. This is not good he said.
The rear end had broken loose from the mounts and had rotated in the car over and over. I leave the image to your mind as to what took place.
Let's put it this way, this was a unique event for all concerned and afterwards the teams were in the tower deciding whether to go on or not. They did, I didn't as I was just too bummed out. While we were in the tower we all could see this wide swath of blood going down the center of the track. The track owner quietly said to me he wasn't sure how he was going to clean that up. Oddly enough a few minutes later a pop up rain storm rolled through followed by intense sunlight and the problem was solved. Come to your own conclusions on that.
Another friend that was the track go to guy and EMT was just a year back from Nam in country. He was the one that had to do the extraction and had that "look". He never went to a race track again.
End game: Remember I mentioned "light is right"? Let me add that "cheap is deep".
Well, what happened here is that the rear end was held in with not enough 3/8" bolts and the above go to guy found some of them later. Off the shelf stuff. When he lifted and got bite again the bolts gave up. That's all it took.
Now, the teaching moment and Roo will likely concur. We have pretty stiff rules for rear end mounting in place for this today but I don't think they mention the type of bolt used. You first thought is grade 8 right? Ok as far as it goes but not any old grade 8 will do. You need the NAS type bolts like the airplane guys use. These bolts come with different length shanks and short threads on the end. The rear end mounting must have a the shank portion engaging both the rear end and the mount. IF a threaded section of the bolt is in contact with the metal it will move and eventually give up. Those of you building your own cars will also want to make the holes a just fit, precision fit. A gnarly drill bit won't do. Also, no kidding, check the torque on these as part of your weekly maintenance program. Might even want to replace them on some kind of schedule. A double shear design is a good thing also.
Roo likely has these bolts on hand or maybe something even better.
I don't need to lose any more friends to stupidity.
Thus ends today's life lesson.
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Dave Very interesting and scary story . Some times we complain when NHRA comes out with a new rule or regulation and then you remember some of the guy's that lost there lifes because of these things . I guess we need to save our self's from our self's some times . Thank's for the tip about the bolts
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If you use fully threaded bolts (and some so called professional shop do just that) the only thing that is really holding the rear end tightly in place is the torque on the bolts and if that falls off even slightly then the threaded portion of the bolts starts to "machine" the holes out, or the threaded portion of the bolts starts to wear away as there is very little surface area to fill the holes in the brackets. Either way the fit gets sloppy. Strictly speaking "Grade 8" bolts are not the best as they can be a little brittle. Allen bolts/ socket head cap screws are in the same category--not good for shock loads. As Dave K mentioned the best solution is to use NAS bolts. They are expensive but they are also the best quality bolts that are readily available. An cheaper alternative is to use Grade 5 bolts by getting longer bolts with shanks and then cutting the thread portion down until there is just enough to suit the nut thickness. You may have to add bosses to the brackets to take up the shank length but that is a good idea anyway as it beefs up the bracket in a critical area. I use fine thread bolts in all applications except for tapped holes in castings and either jet/K nuts (reduced hex size) or nylocs. Coarse threads and split lock washers are for tractors and other farm machinery (and NASCAR where they call them fast bolts because the come apart quicker. Stay away from stainless bolts as they are usually soft and the threads gall very easily.
Roo
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Roo: Do you have a preferred supplier for NAS bolts/nuts? Seems like there is a million different types if those bolts, and many of the suppliers don't explain the sizing of them very well.
Thanks
Chris
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Roo: Do you have a preferred supplier for NAS bolts/nuts? Seems like there is a million different types if those bolts, and many of the suppliers don't explain the sizing of them very well.
Thanks
Chris
I usually get mine from MPH who are right down the street from Indianapolis Raceway Park --317 858 9500-- but most good aircraft parts suppliers have them---ECAS, Aircraft Spruce and Wicks are probably the best. The diameter is called out in dash (-)numbers just like AN lines. Each number is 1/16" so a 3/8" bolt is a -6, 1/2" is -8 etc. The length is measured the same way but does not include the thread--in other words a -32 bolt has a 2" grip length plus the thread which comes in short and long versions as well as drilled, undrilled etc.
Roo
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