FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: retroboy on January 26, 2016, 02:14:40 AM
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Howdy
I don't see the need for a long wheelie bar/bars on a FED with a basic 5 sec 1/8 mile combo leaving from idle or say up to 2200 rpm. I recognize the extra length will add a bit of stability but does anybody run a single wheel at the rear of the chassis like some of the early fuel cars? Photo's of the early set usp please if you have them.
Cheers
Tony
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Your problem is the powerglide and the amount of torque it develops. A single wheel at the back of the car could pivot the rear tires off the surface. To leave off idle you must have enough power to launch the car without climbing the ring gear and enough weight up front for balence. My wheel was 48" back and spring loaded so that it would not bottom till the front raised 12" and carried 140# on the nose. Leaving off high idle the front would still rise 5" and carry for 20' and never touched the wheel, as it was there for back-up, just in case.
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Your problem is the powerglide and the amount of torque it develops. A single wheel at the back of the car could pivot the rear tires off the surface. To leave off idle you must have enough power to launch the car without climbing the ring gear and enough weight up front for balence. My wheel was 48" back and spring loaded so that it would not bottom till the front raised 12" and carried 140# on the nose. Leaving off high idle the front would still rise 5" and carry for 20' and never touched the wheel, as it was there for back-up, just in case.
Bruce this is good info for me too. Based on newer FEDs I see around, I was assuming that 'modern' wheelie bars were all mono-wheel and two-wheel designs like mine were history. Wrong?
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Two pictures of my bar. when we remember to chalk it, it leaves a 4" mark, then nothing for about a foot, then a 30" mark. My front axle of my car weighs 360#, we run 1.10 60's, leaving at 5000rpm. 1.80 first in a glide.
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Thanks for the reply's. I don't remember mentioning a Powerglide. I run a 3 speed so first is 2.45:1. The long mono bar pictured is exactly what I feel a basic 5 sec eighth mile car doesn't need. 30 years ago I ran home made wheelie bars that were two short leaf springs maybe 14/15" long with skate board wheels using a gas lift strut to the chassis up right. This was with a small block and clutch auto so it left hard ( pre dates 60ft timers) and they were just in case.
Cheers
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Your problem is the powerglide and the amount of torque it develops. A single wheel at the back of the car could pivot the rear tires off the surface. To leave off idle you must have enough power to launch the car without climbing the ring gear and enough weight up front for balence. My wheel was 48" back and spring loaded so that it would not bottom till the front raised 12" and carried 140# on the nose. Leaving off high idle the front would still rise 5" and carry for 20' and never touched the wheel, as it was there for back-up, just in case.
Bruce this is good info for me too. Based on newer FEDs I see around, I was assuming that 'modern' wheelie bars were all mono-wheel and two-wheel designs like mine were history. Wrong?
Ricardo I have seen plenty of guy's with double bars on there cars and they work pretty well .For me there is just no way that I would even think about taking my car down the track without some sort of bar on it . But that's just my opinion !
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That's good to know, thanks a lot Bill!
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FED newby and know nothing about tuneup for car.I figure wheelie bar is cheap insurance and xxxx looks cool too.I look at it like carrying my 45 auto better to have and not need than to need and not have it.
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This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Sure cleans up the back end of the car.
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I wouldn't do it. If you hit that roller and jacked one or both rear tires off the track there's no telling where the car's going, and I'd bet it wouldn't be straight. I'm with Bruce on the springy thing. Mine's 150" SBC, PG, 5.7, 125. I bent a couple of fronts from a hard landing, so there will be a wheelie bar on mine at all times.
Just my two cents...
Pic of the 5' bar I made, lower bar bows upward on hit. Tunable for spring with upper bar mounting location options at the wheel housing.
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When I ran my short wheel base car in the 70's it needed a bar then and you should have one today . I bent plenty of stuff with that old car and chased a few photographers into the grass as well !
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I almost flipped our old TAD over backwards at Englishtown without a wheelie bar. The car crashed back down so hard that it broke one front wheel off and D shaped the other front wheel. Caused me L5/S1 disc problems requiring two operations and permanently limiting the movement of my left foot. Turns out the car was only 10 lbs light in the nose. Personally, I'll never run another dragster without a nice long wheelie bar.
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When I ran my short wheel base car in the 70's it needed a bar then and you should have one today . I bent plenty of stuff with that old car and chased a few photographers into the grass as well !
Nice photos Bill!
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When I ran my short wheel base car in the 70's it needed a bar then and you should have one today . I bent plenty of stuff with that old car and chased a few photographers into the grass as well !
The wheelie bars in the bottom pic weren't effective?
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Front end up in the air is for sure a crowd pleaser but my experience is that you get best ET if wheelie bars is long, stiff and low.
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The old saying"In the air for show,on the ground for dough".In the air 3 or 4" is fine if your heading straight.
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When I ran my short wheel base car in the 70's it needed a bar then and you should have one today . I bent plenty of stuff with that old car and chased a few photographers into the grass as well !
The wheelie bars in the bottom pic weren't effective?
for that time that set of bars worked very well and I think for what you are doing something like that would work for you .
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The bar doing it's job a few years ago with the injected setup.
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This what I used many many years ago. A pair of skate board wheels on cut down leaf springs with gas struts from a station wagon tail gate. Clutch auto and it used to pull the front wheels into second.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss117/Retro-boy/Slingshot1_zps809mfcqi.jpg) (http://s567.photobucket.com/user/Retro-boy/media/Slingshot1_zps809mfcqi.jpg.html)
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"Long, stiff and low is best" . That's what she said. Well, two thirds of that, anyway... 3 or 4" is fine? Well she never said that...
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I assume your short wheelie bar back "many many" years ago worked fine with the lower HP you were making and more important NO VHT, now you got bite and unless you carry 100-150 lbs of balast on your front axle, you will be sending me your front wheels to fix.
Jon, Hayden Wheels, 800-624-3803
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I assume your short wheelie bar back "many many" years ago worked fine with the lower HP you were making and more important NO VHT, now you got bite and unless you carry 100-150 lbs of balast on your front axle, you will be sending me your front wheels to fix.
Jon, Hayden Wheels, 800-624-3803
It ran mid 9's. 302 Ford flat tappet camshaft and 750 DP Holley on straight pump gas. Yep no track prep back then, Water burn out, VHT out of the bottle in front of the tyres burn out, then a little chirp, then go. Funny you should mention the wheels because you've reminded me they seemed to have lost their roundness. LOL
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RetroBoy it seems you want your dragster to look like the dragsters "back-in-the-day" like the photos you mention of the old 3 point roll bars. Those cars didn't have the traction we have now with VHT, and softer tires, and back then we just smoked the tires to keep the motor in the RPM range where it's making good power. Now we try to keep the RPM where we want it thru our converters or slipper clutch. If you really want the "no wheelie bar" look, then you could do what one of our Heritage Jrfuelers did at this years March Meet, no wheelie bar at all BUT he added 80 lbs of ballast to his front end. Now I would suggest if you are going to try that you should run a wheelie bar until you figure out how much weight you to have to add to keep from bending your front wheels. Another good idea is to lift up your front end until your wheelie bar hits so you can tell how high your front end will come up before it hits the bar. One of the problems with setting the bar too high is the front end will climb fast and "HIT" the bar hard and unload your slicks. most racers don't want to run an extra 100-150 lbs on their car so they run a long [ 5-6'] single wheel bar that is somewhat flexable, set low, like about 2" off the track so that it will just flex and force the front end down and not hit the bar hard at the hit. If you run a powerglide and have a problem with wheelies, you may have too tight of a converter.
Have Fun,
Jon
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We run our bar about 2" off the ground. Here's a 'normal' leave.
(http://www.meansracing.com/2015anraseasonopener/wheels%20up%20WL.jpg)
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This what I used many many years ago. A pair of skate board wheels on cut down leaf springs with gas struts from a station wagon tail gate. Clutch auto and it used to pull the front wheels into second.
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss117/Retro-boy/Slingshot1_zps809mfcqi.jpg) (http://s567.photobucket.com/user/Retro-boy/media/Slingshot1_zps809mfcqi.jpg.html)
Retro Boy, cool, would love to see a nice close up of your setup.
The station wagon struts didn't compress to quick?
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This was a long long time ago Ponti - not a camera to be seen. No they worked fine.
Is yours the car being built in the little shed in England ? Nice if it's the one I'm thinking of.
Cheers
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This was a long long time ago Ponti - not a camera to be seen. No they worked fine.
Is yours the car being built in the little shed in England ? Nice if it's the one I'm thinking of.
Cheers
Ok, I liked the idea of being able to have a mini bar and still have a push bar, for starts. Mine frame was built in a shed out in the middle of fields over here, it is now in my garage. Car was built for my garage so fits with a couple of inches either end, lol.
Not sure if you have seen the thread on the build,
http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php/topic,1681.0.html (http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php/topic,1681.0.html)
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That's it - I like it a lot.
Cheers