FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: Sidewinder on February 08, 2013, 02:33:16 PM
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Hello guys:)
Great idea with a forum here.
I have an ca. 1965-66 150" chassis with an Kellison chute-pack.
Would like to have some more history on it:)!
The engine is an Ford Flathead, alky blown all new parts and block (French).
Regards
Kjell
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Welcome
Roo Man may have some history on the Kellison, see below
We have great resources here on Front Engine Dragsters.
We have three gentlemen that have stepped up to host questions in their particular area of expertise.
In the Technical category you will find;
Spuds Miller’s Cave where you can ask questions of and get answers from Spud Miller of Fuel Injection Enterprises (Fuel and Ignition).
Roo Man's Room where you can Ask questions of and get answers from Keith Burgan of Roo Man Motor Sports / Vintage Racing Supply (Steering, Suspension, Chassis, Fabrication, Racing History)
Matt Shaff's Engine Shop where you can ask questions of and get answers from Matt Shaff of Pro-Formance Specialties (Engine)
These are great resources unique to this forum, and free to members of the forum.
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Hi Kjell. Flathead, sound good to me. What transmission and rear-end?
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Manuall shifted C4, Chrysler 8 3/4" with 4.10:1 gears.
(http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1663983&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1339623118)
(http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1663982&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1339623118)
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Kjell:
Very very nice. 8)
Question for you.
I am curious as to how many tracks are around you and how often do you get to run.
Cant help but think that you guys have some pretty high costs with relative to fuel and parts.
Ha en flott dag ( thank s to Google translator) ;)
Luke
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From the first photo, that looks interesting to pilot down the track (heighth of the blower).
This year will be my first with a blower sitting in front of me.
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Thank you for pictures and information. Your setup would be rare here, must be ultra-rare there. I like the way you think.
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From the first photo, that looks interesting to pilot down the track (heighth of the blower).
This year will be my first with a blower sitting in front of me.
Yea;) It's hard to see, but aim, let go go of the transbrake and hope for the best;)
K
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Kjell:
Very very nice. 8)
Question for you.
I am curious as to how many tracks are around you and how often do you get to run.
Cant help but think that you guys have some pretty high costs with relative to fuel and parts.
Ha en flott dag ( thank s to Google translator) ;)
Luke
Hello Luke:)
Lots of tracks to choose from, but we need to travel abit to go vintage racing. We have just desided on witch tracks we are gona run this year.
For the most we run at Kjula raceway, 5-6 hour drive:) But it's worth it, we have a great time over there. Last year we managed to get allmost 30 teams for the two classes we run. Each race we spend about $600. the admition is cheap, just $100:) The rest is for fuel and food and beer:)
Some of the guys have run here, two year ago:
www.tierparena.se
I have a track, just 1 hour away, but they are not really interested in vintage racing, and they charge way more, almost $600 just for the admition.
Kjell
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Thank you for pictures and information. Your setup would be rare here, must be ultra-rare there. I like the way you think.
Most of the other teams make fun of me running a flathead;) But this year we'r gona show them;)
Beside my flathead FED there is one in Finland. I hope he shows up this year for some match-racing:)
PS. I don't run to win any big trophy, just to have fun and see if we can set a european record:)
Kjell
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European record? Flathead.......go for it!!!
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What times are you running
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Nothing to slap on the table:)! When we ran with the old standard 8BA with merc crank and Isky 433 cam, i finally whent throug the gears rolled over the finish line at 100mph 12.4 sec ET. The new Killer has not been tested fully yet. If I remember correctly the last run I let go off the throttle before the 1/8 mile, rolling over the finish line 80 mph and 12.3 sec ET!! So there should be alot more power this year. ;D
Kjell
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I'm sure Henry Ford grinning to see his V8 alive and well, and grinning even bigger for it to be running in Norway and Finland. The first V8 and over 80 years old. Kjell, keep posting updates, I'll keep encouraging you towards that record run. It takes a bit of effort to make the flathead run, and alot of
smarts to make it run fast. You chose a tougher path then most.
I'll share one story with you, I changed the rear slicks on my flathead dragster from the early cragar supertricks to heavier mag wheels and new slicks and tubes. The new setup added about 20 lbs more rotational weight. Yep, I was dissapointed when I went 3/10s slower.........
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DF, I know I have choosen the hard way, but what do you do when you have a stubborn crew cheif;)?
After I had bought the dragster, we tore it down, uppgraded the engine with crank-strapps and the blower set-up.
Painted it all yellow, really liked it the way Don Groff had it. We ran it two seasons, finding out that it would be the best to change the street flathead for some more serious engine. Since it had the C4 tranny, I thought it would be "smart" to build a small block Ford 302 cid. I got to buy a complete engine, and some speed goodies like a M/T timing cover. THEN the crew cheif "spoke", no way he would support me if I choose the SBF! ;D Sooo back to the Flathead.
A all new french block was bought and the project got a kickstart.....deside on the spec's... order alot of stuff.....make alot of stuff...after almost two years we finally got back to the tracks last year. But still some issues to solve....:)!
But now the crewcheif is happy and still with me:)!
Sidewinder
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Sidewinder...... Your crew chief is "Cool" and smartypants (that's good thing here). You must trust him alot to go back to fh. I'm guessing your crew chief is part teacher to you? His lesson is if you can make a fh run fast, you can then make anything go fast. Basics provide good foundation.
Another story for you. After two years running, I thought I would upgrade the intake valves from stock heavy 1.50" with the split guides and go to newer modern 1.72" ss valves. Yep, slowed me down again 1/10 to 2/10 this time. Figuring out why was fun. Share with your crew chief, he'll know why it went slower : ) DF
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DF, The crewcheif is really a teacher, full time:) No kidding;) And abit older than me, so I tend ti listen to him:)
When it comes to the tires, first edition was with early aluminum Anerican Racing 5-spoke with a set of Hurst recaps,
really, really heavy stuff. Since I also have focus on stands, like it to periode accurate, I put on the AR 5-spoke magnesium rims with a pair of M&H real slicks. They are way lighter than the old ones, and looks cool too:)?
I have tried to hide all the modern stuff, like the rev limiter and magneto signal converter. Last year i bought a NOS
sun blue-line tach to match Sun blu-line oil and water temp guages:)
Oh. When it comes to the valves, I chose 1.6" intake and 1.58" exhaust. According to the Bonneville guys, they run with really big valves!? I have not max ported my block because I wanted to keep moore material in it as we run with more than 20 psi of pressure;)!
Sidewinder
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Sidewinder - the more hp/torque you have, the less the tire/wheel weight maybe a factor. For our situation, it's a big deal. 20 psi..... probably good thing you haven't relieved the transfer area too much. I will have to take a picture of a block that had much relieving done to transfer area and post for you. Plenty of cracks there, not from boost, that motor ran with high percent of fuel (ran it even with the cracks). DF
p.s. Crew chief is a teacher, very nice. My sister was "exceptional" elementary school teacher.
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DF, you should have seen the colour on the tranfer area surface after running it way too lean;)
Lets say that it matches the coulour on the body;) But no cracks, I think the french is abit better in the casting:)
Good to know that my son is a NDT controller;)
Sidewinder
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Were all 8 cylinders showing lean...... or did it vary per cylinder? Air flow in fh are finicky. Lucky you, no cracks with that extra heat. French fh does have it good points. Optimum to start with as new a block as possible. Here's picture of serious relief in transfer area, probably around 0.125 or little
bit more. Picture not too clear, but focus on intake side and look for dark line going to head bolt hole.
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forgot the picture. I'm not familiar with the acrynom NDT......? DF
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That does not look good. I will check everything soon:) Next on the to-do list is to order some stuff for the injection unit, and 48 new head-studs to match the new set of Baron High Flow heads:)
(http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1786990&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1352669678)
(http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1786991&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1352669678)
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That does not look good. I will check everything soon:) Next on the to-do list is to order some stuff for the injection unit, and 48 new head-studs to match the new set of Baron High Flow heads:)
(http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1786990&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1352669678)
(http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1786991&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1352669678)
New parts are always nice!
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Baron Racing Heads……… I see : ) Sidewinder, did you ever see that Hollywood movie Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where he and his dad are looking for the Holy Grail? Towards the end of the movie, there’s a whole bunch of cups (Holy Grail) on the table and they have to choose the right one? The evil guy picks first and drinks out of the cup, he promptly turns to dust. The comment is made “he picked poorly.” Indiana selects next and takes a drink. The knight says to him “you picked well.” There's a whole lotta heads out there to choose from....
Flatfire, a streamliner ran modified Baron heads rather successfully. Click on third picture to see flatfire engine. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hdrp_0511_ford_flathead_engine/photo_22.html
For my twin engine car, I’m going to run Edelbrock 9.5 heads. I read a Rod Journal article on Vic Edelbrock about 6 years ago. I like what I read, so I support his company. DF
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I read that article years ago, and I really like the looks of the Baron head + it's a go-fast product as well:)
After last years season i contacted a guy that I knew had the Barons in stock. As we had some leaks with the offy heads after gearing for moore boost, I think the Barons will drop the CR abit, but flow some more. As we all know,
flow is all about more power on a Flathead!:)
Kjell
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Yes, I easily see why your head gasket went south with the offy heads. I think they have a combustion chamber volume between 55-60cc. Your new Barons are a lot more, probably closer to 90cc? With 255 stock cubic inches, the offy heads probably rated around 9.1 cr. Adding 10-20lbs boost, OUCH. Your new Barons will drop your c.r. quite a bit…… I’m guessing somewhere between 6.5 – 7.0, depending on your relieving and how many more cubic inches you add……. You’re going at it smart : )
For my twin engines, the short blocks are nearly identical built 296ci. Though they’re still not together…….. still trying to figure out some odds and ends (I am slowpoke). I’m using parts I’ve accumulated over the past 14 years when I first got interested in fh engines. Finally have time to do something with these neat old parts….. digging through my boxes, I keep on finding stuff and say, where’d that come from? DF
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The Offy heads was not stock though, I had reworked them abit,making them moore towards the Edelbrock profile. I think the Barons will flow better, and seal better with Cometic head gaskets. I think the cheif has started on the new intake today:)!
DF, do you have any pictures of your stuff? The Flathead stuff are poison, can't get it out of my body;)!
Kjell
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Not stock, yes right..... I think everybody has modified their fh parts to their liking, part of the learning curve. I'm thinking with forced induction the Baron heads should perform better. I see why you needed the Baron heads before you built a new blower intake, that Baron water manifold on top the heads could create clearance issue. Are you putting in port nozzles and a "burst panel" on your new intake?
For my pictures, I have about a dozen posted on this site already. Look for pictures in these "thread name"
Your Build/Photo Gallery section - "My intro" and "We're all proud of our shops..."
Roo-Man's Room section - "FED short body build?"
Matt's Engine Shop section - "Coupling 2 engines"
and here in FrontEngineDragsters section - "Starter for a blower"
In order to view the pictures that I posted on this forum, you have to be signed on, otherwise only the comments show up, no pictures. When you see the pictures I posted, just double-click on them to make them full-screen size : ) After looking at the pictures I posted, let me know and I can take more pictures and email them to you. DF
p.s. I know lots of guys that got bit by fh bug : )
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Not stock, yes right..... I think everybody has modified their fh parts to their liking, part of the learning curve. I'm thinking with forced induction the Baron heads should perform better. I see why you needed the Baron heads before you built a new blower intake, that Baron water manifold on top the heads could create clearance issue. Are you putting in port nozzles and a "burst panel" on your new intake?
For my pictures, I have about a dozen posted on this site already. Look for pictures in these "thread name"
Your Build/Photo Gallery section - "My intro" and "We're all proud of our shops..."
Roo-Man's Room section - "FED short body build?"
Matt's Engine Shop section - "Coupling 2 engines"
and here in FrontEngineDragsters section - "Starter for a blower"
In order to view the pictures that I posted on this forum, you have to be signed on, otherwise only the comments show up, no pictures. When you see the pictures I posted, just double-click on them to make them full-screen size : ) After looking at the pictures I posted, let me know and I can take more pictures and email them to you. DF
p.s. I know lots of guys that got bit by fh bug : )
As there is so much interest why not post all the pictures in one spot under a build thread in Your Builds / Photo Gallery ?
If you are having problems posting pictures start the thread with some comments, and send the pictures to me and I will downsize and post them for you.
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Thanks Glenn. Wonderful suggestion.
Sidewinder – Lead the way and start a thread in the Your Builds/Photo section with a title like “Kellison Flathead, the road to the record” : )
See you over there, with pictures. DF