FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: GlennLever on June 17, 2015, 05:43:37 PM
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Went through tech inspection here at Hot Rod Reunion Bowling Green.
They were unhappy with my treaded front tires because they did not say racing on them.
They did let me pass as they did not say MoPed or limited to 30 MPH on them.
Member of this forum did not pass as his said 30MPH.
I would like to keep the nostalgic look of treaded front tires, but will be going to the New England Hot Rot Reunion and do not want to have a problem with Inspection there.
Suggestions?
2.25 X 17
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Lets see front tires for a FED. Hayden wheels,willing to bet Jon can help.
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You raced last year at Bowling Green with these same tires yes?
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Glenn, should you have a picture of your front tire tread, that would help me tremendously right now.
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Lets see front tires for a FED. Hayden wheels,willing to bet Jon can help.
I'm hoping he will jump in.
You raced last year at Bowling Green with these same tires yes?
Yes these are the same tires I have been racing since the start. They have never been questioned before.
Glenn, should you have a picture of your front tire tread, that would help me tremendously right now.
Please see below
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take a belt sander to the speed warning .............. no dont do that ....
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I run these from Jon Hayden
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Unless the tires are cracked or cord is showing, have the tech guy show you in the rules for your class that the tires must have or be racing tires. Don't get an additude,like me, but ask him to show you in your book so you may hilight it for future reference. Primary tire for the fronts were Avon speed masters and did not say racing on them. Don't have my book handy but went thru this with a customer out here., nowhere in the current NHRA book or the heritage suplimant does it require that the fronts must be racing type
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Just looked up the rules concerning front tires within the Heritage series, Falls under general regs 5.1 & 5.2 as applys to any NE Class and Jr Fuel and that reg does not mandate racing front tires. Now 7.0pro states manufactured racing tires but does not specify front tires also as does the spec for Fuel and Funny mandating front tires designed for racing.
Some tech guys are just clueless and why I always carry bail money.
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Bruce at dreracecar is correct, no rule in the NHRA rule book as to race tires only. But I have run into problem if the tire says max 30 mph. A few years ago I had a customer wanted the Very lightest tire wheel set-up, and at that time the lightest tire available was Michelin with a uni-tread design. He was very happy, but when he was getting tech at a Comp Elim race he was told he could not race with those Moped tires. Well I didn't notice the sidewall said max 60 mph, I was just looking for a light tire for him. They made him buy some front runners, and said they were going to check on speed rated tires. Well the fact is NOT Even the front slicks have any speed rating on the side walls As a matter-a-fact, I have seen some 170 mph rated motorcycle tires tested, it was rear motorcycle tire. The speed rating is about sustained speed, like 170 mph for AN HOUR. You see, tires are created and destroyed by heat. All of our drag racing front tires don't build any heat [ unless way under inflated] because of at least 35 lbs of pressure and not run very long.
The only time I've had to replace a front tire for a racer was a N/TF with a good size front wing and he was only running 40 lbs, but the wing added enough down force to flex the side walls and it chunked his Goodyear Front Runner. I told him to run at least 65 #, the big show top fuel run 80 to 100 lbs with their Big wings.
It was just last year that one of my customers was told he couldn't race with "those Motorcycle" wheels & tires. So I called NHRA Tech and they asked if I could send them a sample to check-out, so I told them better yet I would bring them a sample to the NHRA office. You see, they had not seen my customers wheel tire combo before, 21" wheel and tire to run Top Dragster, he wanted more roll-out [ a head start on the lights] the tire was 27 1/2" tall were as the normal 17" is more like 22". The taller tire works well on a full tree, no advantage with a Pro tree. Anyway, I included a note that said even before Don Garlits, ALL wire wheels on dragsters were ALL motorcycle wheels. I also pointed out the NHRA rule book says min .100 wire spoke dia, and no missing spokes, the only other limit is wire spoke wheels are not allowed on a car over 1800 lbs, with out driver. So NHRA approved my wheels and tires. when the tech guy back east said they were going to look into the speed rating issue, I think they gave up because no door cars much less dragsters had speed rated tires. Can you imagine they up rising if all door cars had to run Funny car tires.
Glenn if you'd like a more correct nostalgia front tire call me I sell 2.25x17 RIB tires that look the most like Avon tire that started all the 17" front tire standard. i have those 17" rib tires on a few N/TF [ 250 mph] and a number of A/FD [ 220 mph]. Only problem is not checked tire pressure and no caps on the valve stems can push down on the valve and let the air out at speed.
I just shipped a new set of 17" wheels and tires overnight to a racer in Bowling Green because he was told he could not race with his "moped" 16" tires, but I think what he had was old 16" ChenShin uni-tread tires with a max speed on the sidewall. ChenShin has not imported any motorcycle/ moped street tires in about 6-7 years.
Good Luck at the Hot Rod Reunion guys !
Jon Hansen
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Just put a new set of Hoosier 22 X 2.5 X 17 on my FED. I resisted the urge to buy some really cheep fronts only after an old race buddy told me the "story" of one flying off and hitting him on the helmet @ 200 MPH :o
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Thanks for all the replies and good suggestions.
There is no speed limitations on the sides of my front tires.
When I get home it is time for new fronts anyway, and I will get the rule book out and highlight.
Will post tires I purchase
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Digster, the only tire I have seen peal off of a wheel was a A/FD that the owner installed the tire, but only used electrical tape on the inside of the rim to protect the spokes/nipples from punching a hole in the inner tube, which of course is what happened. Anytime any tire goes flat you can have a problem. I use rubber rim strips or 2 turns of narrow duct tape especially when installing front runner type tires, because the front runners are very difficult to bead all the way up to the rim, and the rubber rim strip can get in the way.
Most if not all race track race tire companies will not install front runners on wire spoke wheels because they are difficult to bead up, but mostly because the only tire mounting equipment they have is for rear slicks. But a good motorcycle shop can mount and balance wire spoke wheels, just point out the spoke protector issue.
Even the picture of Cha-Cha's tire coming off was the result of a loss air pressure. One tip to point out, is make sure everyone uses a good valve stem cap, because at speed the valve can be pushed in and let the air out. I've seen that happen a few times too.
The reason a number of my customer like the rib tires, is the nostalgia look, less rotating friction [ less rubber on the track], lighter weight, and of course $130 less per tire. Of course I sell and install 17" Goodyear and Hoosier front runners, besides Kenda rib tires, and I sell some German made 18" tires too.
I hope this info clears-up some front tire questions.
Jon Hansen
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Never seen a MPH limit on cycle tires (doesnt mean there isnt) but more towards space saver spares and moble home trailer tires because they are cheap.
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S&W Racecars is where I have gotten mine. Ribbed tire. Brand are Kenda. They have tubes as well.
DRAGSTER FRONT TIRE
90-131
2.50 x 17 dragster treaded front tire
Reg. Price:
$32.00
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The Gentleman that stopped at my pit yesterday did not pass tech because there was a max 30 MPH speed on the side of his tire. The reason I passed is there wasn't one.
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Congrats Glenn for getting into the final!
Nice looking car and great driving!
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Congrats Glenn for getting into the final!
Nice looking car and great driving!
Thanks, I gave it away.
I was running a 10.0 car at night saw his light and left (2 seconds early)
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I wrote to NHRA,
"Sir,
At Bowling Green, at tech inspection they were looking at front tires on dragsters that had tread. They were particularly looking for "MoPed" tires and tries with "max MPH limitations". My front tires were gone over with a fine tooth coom and neither of those marks were on them. The inspectors were looking for "For Racing" on the side of the tire, but my tires did not have that. They passed it anyway because there was no "MoPed" or "max MPH limitations".
A gentleman on my forum supplied this input. "Just looked up the rules concerning front tires within the Heritage series, Falls under general regs 5.1 & 5.2 as applies to any NE Class and Jr Fuel and that reg does not mandate racing front tires. Now 7.0pro states manufactured racing tires but does not specify front tires also as does the spec for Fuel and Funny mandating front tires designed for racing."
In the NHRA Rule book under Nostalgia Dragster "Class of competition within Nostalgia Dragster is for front-engine,
methanol-burning dragsters." I find
TIRES & WHEELS: 5
TIRES
Maximum width 12 inches as measured across tread surface or
indicated by manufacturer on the sidewall. See General
Regulations 5:1.
WHEELS
Lightweight automotive-type wire wheels permitted on front axle
only, provided total car weight does not exceed 1,800 pounds,
excluding driver. Maximum rear wheel width 12 inches. See
General Regulations 5:2.
In General Regulations 5:1 and 5:2 I find
TIRES & WHEELS: 5
5:1 TIRES
Tires will be visually checked for condition, pressure, etc. and must
be considered free of defects by the technical inspector prior to any
run. All street tires must have a minimum of 1/16-inch tread depth.
Temporary spares, space saver spares, farm implement or trailer
tires prohibited. Metal, screw-in valve stems mandatory in tubeless
tires, front and rear, on vehicles running 11.99 or quicker.
5:2 WHEELS
Hubcaps must be removed for inspectors, who will check for loose
lugs, cracked wheels, worn or oversize lug holes, and condition of
spindles, axle nuts, cotter pins, etc. Snap-on hubcaps are prohibited
on any class car. The use of “spinner” style wheels or any wheel
design that incorporates movable pieces while vehicle is in motion
or stationary are prohibited. Each car in competition must be
equipped with automotive-type wheels with a minimum 12 inches of
diameter unless Class Requirements stipulate otherwise.
Motorcycle wheels or lightweight automotive wire wheels must be
equipped with .100-inch minimum diameter steel spokes, properly
cross-laced to provide maximum strength. All spoke holes in rim and
hub must be laced. Omissions to lighten wheels prohibited. The
thread engagement on all wheel studs to the lug nut, or
Diameter of stud At least diameter of stud Washer Lug nut
5:2 Section 20 - General Regulations 20.27
lug bolts to wheel hubs, must be equivalent to or greater than the
diameter of the stud/bolt. Length of the stud/bolt does not determine
permissibility. (Example: A 7/16-inch stud must be thoroughly
engaged through the threads in the hex portion of the lug a
minimum of 7/16-inch.)
Wheel spacer permitted. Spacer to be either hub-centric or lug-centric
and must fit with minimal clearance to retain concentricity. The wheel
spacer must not reduce the minimum permitted thread engagement
below the limits established by fastener diameter. (See example as
stated above.) No stacking of wheel spacers allowed.Maximum rim
width on any car: 16 inches. No rear wheel discs or covers permitted
in any category. Top Fuel and Funny Car rear wheels must meet SFI
Spec 15.3. Pro Stock, Top Alcohol Dragster, Top Alcohol Funny Car,
and Pro Modified (Comp) must meet a minimum of SFI Spec 15.1.
."
on 7/4/2015
and never heard back.
Not willing to take a chance on travel and then not being able to race.
Baby has new shoes and shoe laces (stainless steel cotter pins)
(http://www.irv2.com/attachments/photopost/data/1515/medium/a_DSC_8271.JPG)
(http://www.irv2.com/attachments/photopost/data/1515/medium/a_DSC_8272.JPG)
I was more concerned about tread depth than type of tire as there is a stipulation on tread depth in the rules.
(http://www.irv2.com/attachments/photopost/data/1515/DSC_8272.JPG)
(http://www.irv2.com/attachments/photopost/data/1515/DSC_8066.jpg)
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S&W Racecars in Pa sells the Kendas for $30 some $$ a piece--I see the same tire sold elsewhere upwards of $70--they do not have any Moped markings or MPH limits and are on lots of cars. I have heard from several folks that real Race Goodyears etc are NOT a safe deal on wire wheels that most of us run due to ???? Something about the way the bead and wheel lip is not compatable??
I love my Kendas and I love that I got them for fair price--they look great also!
Those tires shown Looked like moped tires and would have drawn a look from any tech guy I would think
THANKS for askingthe tech guys to clear it all up so we can all be safe and pass tech
I had my first encounter with NHRA tech when I got my chasssis serted--NEW guy--I think I knew more than he did --he got hammered by the 15 guys that showed hoping for new stickers --they shreaded him alive as they were certing old cars that had been racing every wk end since that guy was born--it was a POOR showing by NHRA and...we were told we would slpit his travel expenses between the number of cars --well that would have been minimal per car but they "cut it off" at 6 or so cars so we All HAD TO PAY A BIG CHUNK -- not fair or a good show--we can't race and give NHRA money without the sticker yet they gouged us on that too. I may just keep on running my local stuff and avoid the NHRA--My first impression was not a good one so guessing the tire deal was BS too.
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Goodyear will not mount tires on wire rims because---
1) designed to be tubeless and if they pinch a tube and ruin it they dont want to be responcble
2) dont have a machine capable of holding the rim without scarfing it
3) some rim widths are too narrow for the for the tube stem to sit properly
4) Most new rims have a SFI rating and the rim lip meets a certian spec so they are liability covered
Mounted a new set of GY on my wire rims, got the job done on my trucks tailgate using tire spoons but it was a pain. Went thru 2 tubes and I was careful and had to use stem extentions because could not get the stem patch to seat due to the increased tire bead size. A normal 10 minute job (for both) took over a half hour and filled up the swear jar
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S&W Racecars in Pa sells the Kendas for $30 some $$ a piece--I see the same tire sold elsewhere upwards of $70--they do not have any Moped markings or MPH limits and are on lots of cars. I have heard from several folks that real Race Goodyears etc are NOT a safe deal on wire wheels that most of us run due to ???? Something about the way the bead and wheel lip is not compatable??
I love my Kendas and I love that I got them for fair price--they look great also!
Those tires shown Looked like moped tires and would have drawn a look from any tech guy I would think
THANKS for askingthe tech guys to clear it all up so we can all be safe and pass tech
I had my first encounter with NHRA tech when I got my chasssis serted--NEW guy--I think I knew more than he did --he got hammered by the 15 guys that showed hoping for new stickers --they shreaded him alive as they were certing old cars that had been racing every wk end since that guy was born--it was a POOR showing by NHRA and...we were told we would slpit his travel expenses between the number of cars --well that would have been minimal per car but they "cut it off" at 6 or so cars so we All HAD TO PAY A BIG CHUNK -- not fair or a good show--we can't race and give NHRA money without the sticker yet they gouged us on that too. I may just keep on running my local stuff and avoid the NHRA--My first impression was not a good one so guessing the tire deal was BS too.
They do look like MoPed tires but they are not. They have no max MPH on the side and do not say MoPed on the side.
I went with these because they seem to be on a lot of FEDs and should not have an problems with tech.
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I got a new set of Hoosiers (just like the Goodyears) on my wire rims but had to have it done at a Motorcycle shop. He said it was a tough job even with his machine. Properly seating the beads was not easy and took time. The Hoosiers have a rib on the sidewall close to the bead so when it was even all the way around the wheel we knew we had it on properly. Once again it was not easy but we got it done.
Next year I want new front wheels, tires and spindles. just because....
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My take on this front tire deal is this: I have a friend who drives my car. I'm not going to put any tire on the car that is not speed rated.......
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George, your friend has a good friend
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An easy way to put front tires on without any tools.
Start at opposite side of valve, put the tire in the low part in middle of wheel and tie it.
Work your way to the valve and tie it a couple of times and when you are at the valve then just bend tire with your fingers.
Also use a good valve with strong spring so it don´t let the air out when you got some speed on it.
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StigO, that is a great idea! Thanks for sharing that.
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Really good idea...I just put the tires on my blacktop driveway it the hot sun for awhile and they went on my new Hayden rims like butter...
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My take on this front tire deal is this: I have a friend who drives my car. I'm not going to put any tire on the car that is not speed rated.......
George,
discounting the moped tires which are meant for seriously low speed vehicles, any good motorcycle tire will work on a dragster. The speed ratings for tires are based on running the tire for an hour under load and heat build-up is usually what will kill the tire. Most dragster applications see less load than on a motorcycle as there are two tires carrying the weight and if the car is working the way it should most of the weight is on the rear tires until you shut off.
As for putting the late model race tires on spoke wheels Bruce is correct in that the narrower version of the Goodyear will work. The Hoosier will also do the job but after mounting a pair of them for me my nephew (who manages Hoosier's shop here in Brownsburg) told me that he would pay for a set of the narrow Goodyears rather than mount another pair of the Hoosiers.
Roo