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Social => Your Builds / Photo Gallery => Topic started by: noslin on June 24, 2017, 10:48:36 PM

Title: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on June 24, 2017, 10:48:36 PM
debated whether to put a build thread and decided to do it for the mere fact of contributing to the forum. This is a great forum with lots of knowledgeable people and great experiences. 

new experiences is in reference to going into a completely new and unknown direction.   i have never had a domestic or v8 type vehicle other then my daily drivers.  i have always since early 80s been messing with old aircooled volkswagens and within the last 10 years getting deep into performance vw's.  i built a car to run in what is called pro mod within the vw world which is a headsup power adder class.  it was based on lb/cube setup but the rules as written are not fair and after years of ignorance of those in charge i decided to go a different direction to get wheel to wheel racing etc.  my car was a chassis car and i purchased it as a roller but completely rebuilt it with new tin, made changes to cage etc so my 6'4" frame could fit in it.  it was at one time the 7th fastest vw door slammer in the world at 8.67@ 162 mph w/1.31 60. but not many people are going to spend 60-70k on a vw to do that haha.  so, i have been around racing, i have done my own fab work, wiring, plumbing, deal/learn elec fuel inj, and with help of my buddy trans and engines.  i have learned a lot dealing with the vw over the years. i have pics if interested, just dont want to pollute the build with em.

so, i have zero personal experience going this direction but i know and understand what it takes.  i ask a lot of questions but thats what this place is for, to ask questions, learn, and contribute meaningfully regardless of the OP's choices or direction.  to that note, you may not like the direction MY build is going in and it might not be what you would do, what you feel is necessary, excessive, etc... but your input is appreciated as it might help others.  just dont get butt hurt if i do something and you have other thoughts as noted.

so, on to the build.   im building (having built) the chassis by Bill Comstock;  Bill and team run a A-fuel fed.  im hoping to get it within the next few weeks.. by mid July 2017.  diving into this was an impulse to some extent.  we took the vws down a few years to march meet and fell in love with the atmosphere etc.  my buddy steve has nitro vw fed that Bill built.  max length in classes is 225" so i decided to build it for few reasons.  one being  we may someday want to race a headsup class seeing how we have done this with the vws.

my buddy Jeff is the motorhead, i have the car, he is doing the motor.  the first thought budget thinking was to build a "whale' ( i think thats the term for early iron hemi's) and then to get better block, heads etc as they presented themselves.  we want to ultimately run 7.0 Pro but start in NE1 which we felt was achievable with the iron hemi.   well, Jeff just picked up a KB 426 hat to pan with littlefield 871.   he didnt dig the heads the guy had so he opted to do something different.  but, we have more then enough power for 7.0.

i picked up some weld magnums spindle mounts for front and 15x15 rears, will have dual 10lb fire bottles, will run stroud chutes, the rear housing is a mittler brothers, strange ultra case third member, strange 40 spline axles, strange brakes, Motec data logger dash, and BTE sportsman glide for now. i really wanted to do a floater rear end setup but didnt have the coin to pop for it considering all the other stuff to get.

ill get pics of the motor tomorrow, post up some pics of wheels, and trans.  thats about all i got though till the fed is done.

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/wheels.jpg)

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/pg%20trans.jpg)


ty
dean

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on June 25, 2017, 03:26:24 PM
here is few pics of motor and blower. he will give the fuel system to Gene Adams, who lives here in town,  to flow/test.   

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/blower.jpg)

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/kb5-2.jpg)

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: hemidakota on June 25, 2017, 08:49:05 PM
Very cool Dean....
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: cad500justin on June 26, 2017, 09:13:33 PM
Bitchin! 15" rear wheels seem wide to me for a FED.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on June 27, 2017, 06:32:36 PM
Bitchin! 15" rear wheels seem wide to me for a FED.

those are just rollers for now. but on tire selection, i dont know really where to start.  15'' does seem wide but at 200mph how wide is it, 10"  tire will grow prob 6" at 200.   maybe 5 @ 170? 

ill buy from summit or i might get m&h's. not sure yet.  M&H will at least get you exact tires and prob newer too then summits.  ill go to summit and have them measure all of them (whatever size i choose) to make sure they are close in roll out.

so, tire choices are all 33" tall, have hoosiers in 12, 14.5, and 15 inch wide from summit. and M&H in 12 & 14.5 inch to choose from.  other thing to consider is the compound.  have no idea what to get there. 

ty
dean
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on June 27, 2017, 09:59:05 PM
I have found that dragsters don't need a super wide combination to work, 33X12 on a 10" rim works for 97% of the cars out there
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: gregm784 on June 28, 2017, 07:12:48 PM
I run M&H fuel tires, either 12.00x16 or 13.00x16.  12.00 on a 10" rim, 13.00 on an 11" rim.  the 13 narrow up to 11 at 185mph.  the 13.00 is actually 12.25" wide.  More tire than that, and it's a royal bitch keeping the tire speed up, and tire shake becomes very real.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on June 28, 2017, 09:14:18 PM
Greg, as I remember it, you have been running the NTF tires for about 2-3 years, what kind of tire pressure and launch RPM is working for you ?
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: gregm784 on June 29, 2017, 07:19:30 PM
Made the move to the fuel tire about 8 years Jon. 12.00 for a few years, been on 13.00 for about 4 years.

as low as 7.5, as high as 8.5 

Launch RPM is about 5,000.  it varies with tire pressure & track condition.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: nostalgic371 on July 01, 2017, 01:05:54 PM
If the M&H 13.00's measure 12.25'' what do their 12.00x16's measure for width?
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: arush on July 01, 2017, 05:49:44 PM
Width  11.6"
Section Width  13.6"
Diameter  31.5"
Circumference  100"
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 07, 2017, 12:08:02 PM
what kind of tire growth are you guys seeing. 4, 5, 6" 
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: gregm784 on July 07, 2017, 01:27:41 PM
By looking at tire vs body panel, i'm guestimating 4"
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 04, 2017, 08:23:51 AM
picked up the fed yesterday 9/3/2017.  so stoked to have it now.  now the fun begins for me. the build i think is just as much fun as going out and running it.  i guess because you have something to do, idk lol.  been kind of thinking about things over the last year of what i need to get etc and do.  now i can see some sleepless nights thinking stuff to order and to begin finishing it off.

i have to say, Bill Comstock is an awesome person.  He has done a bitchn job on the car and has been more then helpful answer any question i have, and as you can see in some (well all) of my post, i have lots haha. i also appreciate everyones input here as well. All said, im very happy with what Bill did for me and would recommend him for any fab, chassis, whatever you need help with.

anyways, here it is getting loaded up for the trip home.  have to say, it barely fits in the 28ft trailer with 26ft on the deck. have about 12" in front and a few in the back.  ill have to figure out which direction to load so its easy and the golf cart can fit, which i think it can. 

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/fed%20%31%2Ejpg)
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 04, 2017, 09:00:16 AM
here is pic of motor with the new heads.  when Jeff got the motor, the heads the guy had were not good, they had a crack through the seat/port.  they were OG iron heads.  so, Jeff opted to pass on those and has been looking at options for heads.  He found that Edelbrock makes a aluminum head for the 426.  i think they flow like 420 out of the box.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/cylinder-heads/chrysler/victor-jr-bb.shtml

they are only 1300 each which i think is a great deal especially considering the options available on the market.  Jeff is going change the spring and retainers.  he will blend the seat to help the flow a bit as shown in this article. http://www.hotrod.com/articles/port-edelbrocks-hemi-head-38-cfm/ 

motor is just mocked up, Jeff is still acquiring parts to do the build on it.  he will get different valve covers.  this isnt the final, its just put together on the stand so we can sit back and be in awe while bench racing and postulating the future   ;D

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/hemi%201.jpg)

 
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: ricardo1967 on September 04, 2017, 11:41:26 AM
Nice ride and hemi Noslin, congratulations! Keep us posted.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 05, 2017, 09:29:37 PM
thank you,

tonight Jeff brought over the blower and hat to set on. gives the car a different look.  got us excited and motivated.   i also started to mess with the cowl.  never really hammered aluminum like it needs to be at the firewall.     i have made a few mistakes on the cowl as i did not know. but, if i screw up to bad, ill just do another one. learning as i go along and thats the best part about doing the build.


(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/cowl 1sm.jpg)

here is pic of housing, third member, axles. 

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/rearsm.jpg)
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 10, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
ok,  been a tough week haha.. no sleep and wanting to leave work with race car on mind... racecaritis lol

i wanted to get the body done, back half.  been looking at pics, looking at lines on the car etc to come up with idea on back side panel.   i got the back side panel, middle panel, and cowl cut to shape and dzus'd. on the back side panel, after i establish windshield heigh ill cut back to face of bars at top of windshield and then ill radius the back part at the 90* and im going to roll the long angled back side a bit. i wanted to do a big roll but didnt leave enough so ill put a little one in for strength and to soften the look up a bit.

 here are some pics of the windshield mockup.  i wanted the windshield to look someone symmetrical all way around and follow the longitudinal cowl lines.  after i cut the mockup out and taped back on, it slopes down on the back sides toward the cage but its parallel to the cutout.  for height, i split from top of cowl at cage to top of back side panel;  so its about 3.5 inch tall.  you see  a lot of different ideas with windshields on cars. i didnt car much for the ones that are real high in front so to have top of windshield level.  i kind of wonder if i should make it taller and go all way up to top of side panel.  if i did that, it would probably be about chin level at front of it.  idk lol.  decisions... decisions. 

first time hammering out something, good thing i know a few body guys and have some bondo to fill in the craters.   

im open to suggestions on windshield.   

ty
dean

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/cowl 2.jpg)

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/cowl 3.jpg)

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/cowl 4.jpg)

(http://nor%2Dcalspeed.com/Dean/fed/cowl 5.jpg)
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on September 11, 2017, 08:45:30 AM
Move the car outside and stand way back to get a good perspective from different angles, 5 ft is not enough to take in all the lines and angles to get flow
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on September 11, 2017, 11:28:35 AM
Good looking car, Are you going to race 7.0 Pro or 7.60 [NE-1] in the Heritage series ?
Call me if you need wire front wheels and tires or 12" wide Goodyear slicks,
Jon, 805-444-4489
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 11, 2017, 12:14:42 PM
Good looking car, Are you going to race 7.0 Pro or 7.60 [NE-1] in the Heritage series ?
Call me if you need wire front wheels and tires or 12" wide Goodyear slicks,
Jon, 805-444-4489

id like to run 7.0 pro and run NE1 with the Nor Cal Nostalgia Eliminator group unless they get 7.0 class rolling.  ill prob run MM, CHRR, and whatever races at sac they have for Heritage Series.

i have set of new wire wheels from you to sale that i was going to use on it before i found a killer deal on the weld's. The welds are not 'vintage' looking but neither is the chassis either as its more modern style.

thanks Bruce, thats a great idea and ill do that.  im going to get some more paper and make few different heights and check it out. 

dean
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on September 11, 2017, 12:38:50 PM
To cut my windscreens, I set up a tri-pod with a cross-hair lazer, it will line around a curve, just "dot" with a sharpie along the line and finish off when flat.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 11, 2017, 03:19:12 PM
To cut my windscreens, I set up a tri-pod with a cross-hair lazer, it will line around a curve, just "dot" with a sharpie along the line and finish off when flat.

oh bitchn idea, thank you.  have tri-pod and lazer at work i can use.  thank you
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 17, 2017, 02:32:18 PM
frustrations of new build...   :o :o  ??? >:( :(

figured it would be best to bring the KB over and drop in to see what problems might arise.. a few.

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 17, 2017, 03:53:02 PM

 
  oil pump that came with the KB will not work. actually about the only thing that will work is an adapter plate to external "something"   so need to figure that out.  what type of pump, where to mount, etc     
 
 

fig the oil pump issue out, it will fit up in there just a tight fit.

ty
dean
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 17, 2017, 09:00:54 PM
i think ill weld 1/4" plate to the inside of the motor plate about 3/4" or so and then cut the motor plate down about 1/2" or so around the top so the body will fit and the motor will snug up. i think i can make it look ok and not have to grind on the head much more.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on September 22, 2017, 03:05:58 PM
If you weld to the motor plate, you will take all the heat treat out of it. you will turn T6 into "O" condition and have to re-heat it back to T6.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: glofria on September 22, 2017, 06:08:24 PM
Regarding the oil pump, we had to think outside of the box because we use (and build our own) a dry sump pump. And the only way to make it work was to put it under and offset of the oil pan as scene in this photo.

Another way we have mounted a dry sump was to mount it inline and in front of the fuel pump by turning it around and plumbing it backwards.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: glofria on September 22, 2017, 06:12:10 PM
Here is an shot of the restored "Panic Mouse" Blown Fuel Flat that I pulled of the web with the sump pump that is cam drive.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: GlennLever on September 23, 2017, 11:38:48 AM
 :)
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on September 24, 2017, 10:19:20 AM
thats a bitchn boat!

i wont weld to the motor plate, after thinking about this ill jsut trim the lip down a bit on the cowl and he will just have to trim more off the head. i dont want to mod anything.  just a hair has to be trimmed on head anyways.   

the pump fits so will be able to run with that. 
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: glofria on September 26, 2017, 10:49:28 AM
Yes, that is a bitchen boat. Unfortunately it took the life of Ray Castelli back in 1975.

Regarding trimming the heads, unless your running water, trim as much off as needed; less weight to carry.  ;D
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 04, 2018, 08:39:02 PM
ok, been awhile since i posted on the thread.  been posting over on facebook but it doesnt do FED.org any good by not posting here.  im going to try IMGUR.com for hosting images.  will see how this works out. 

i got a few pics to post up, so ill be all over the board with no sequence but will try do better as time goes on.

so, here is a pic of what the body ended up looking like.  i like the way the windscreen came out.  i have to redo one little panel on left side under motor and i need to get a tipping die to put a slight angle on a few panels.

(https://i.imgur.com/mk4EgTV.jpg)

for the cowl issue at motor, i ended up with this and it fits tight. 

(https://i.imgur.com/A78m2d4.jpg)

since i dont dare try to weld on the chassis, i tacked everything, tabs, etc and then took it to Bill Comstock the chassis builder to weld all those items on.  then i did final assembly with everything.  im finding though ill have to have a few more things welded. 

here is pic at his new shop.  he doesnt have all the equipment and tools in at the time the photo was taken so it looks empty but he is up and rolling now and ready for more biz. 

(https://i.imgur.com/Ac1rW8x.jpg)

i set the credit card on fire recently and purchased the chutes, fire bottles, few cables, and soem other stuff.  cant remember, just know that im getting creative with top romen haha.

here is a few more pics of as it stands today. i think im going to do a full body as i really like the way they look. i think it is a great canvas for paint jobs to stand out.

(https://i.imgur.com/kPKziSM.jpg)


Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 04, 2018, 08:49:34 PM
so, word to the wise when getting third member.  i had no idea as this is first time for me and all new.  i have Strange third member and purchased Strange's magnetic sensor for it.  well as you can see in the pic, it does not fit.  so i called strange and they said that they dont sell that many coupler compared to normal u-joint style (dont know what its called).  anyways, these are made for the masses.  The help desk said usually when someone purchases third member they get the sensor at that time.  Strange machine shop then machines 'something' .  the guy told me they machine the collar but that cant happen as there isnt enough meat to cut for it to fit over the black non-machined area.   so, they would have to machine the black non-machined area. 

I sent it to a buddy who is a machinist for him to make it work.  he will machine the coupler same OD as finished surface where the seal rides and will all be good.

(https://i.imgur.com/AaDsUPC.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/c0fZyfG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/DwslR19.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SKuAy1a.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/VlRcYfL.jpg)
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 04, 2018, 09:11:28 PM
gas pedal.

when i go to the steel place in town, i peruse the scrap area for misc items.  i picked up some 4x4 square tubing .250 wall. figured id make the gas pedal and foot rest out of it.  then someone commented about the weight.  just bracket/index racing so what difference does weight make if you have enough power to cover the index. 

(https://i.imgur.com/vebHcTJ.jpg)

so, i was diggin around at work and we had some .125 wall perforated alum at work so bent a few 4" wide peices to make the pedals out of.

here is  piece i fabbed up.

(https://i.imgur.com/J5EJTxe.jpg)

here is rough cut.  as you can see the edges are real rough with the holes etc

(https://i.imgur.com/tRAIoAa.jpg)

i used .125 alum welding rod for the edges.  i have no idea about ratio or location to put the mounting hole for the pedal. so its trial and error i guess as this isnt mentioned in the 'how to build a FED manual' (joking)

(https://i.imgur.com/skRozuh.jpg)


 here is a pic of the pedals installed. 

(https://i.imgur.com/npPSGjs.jpg)

i put the aluminum over the master cylinder so i wouldnt step on it getting in and out.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: GlennLever on July 05, 2018, 05:26:28 AM
You should put a lope on the go pedal so that if the return spring ever breaks you can pull the pedal back with you toes?

 :)
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 05, 2018, 06:31:30 AM
You should put a lope on the go pedal so that if the return spring ever breaks you can pull the pedal back with you toes?

 :)

Thank you, there is one. The last pic is what's in there now.  I'm wondering though about return spring at pedal and at hat.  I feel pedal could use little help..  is that typical.  Do ppl put return springs both locations or just at hat?
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: GlennLever on July 05, 2018, 07:39:01 AM
Currently I have a double spring at the hat
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: wideopen231 on July 05, 2018, 09:00:35 AM
If one in both locations make you more comfortable about set up do it. No such thing as over kill when its safety concern. One thing I have learned over years if gut says it maybe a problem it will be a problem.Now if gut would work on lottery.LMAO
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: Paul New on July 05, 2018, 09:52:58 AM
I run a double spring on the right side of my hat, but on he left side I run another single spring. Now at the last race an odd thing happened I crossed the finish line lifted and watched my throttle arm fall off...... well since I had a spring on both sides my butterflies closed.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: GlennLever on July 05, 2018, 10:26:22 AM
 
I run a double spring on the right side of my hat, but on he left side I run another single spring. Now at the last race an odd thing happened I crossed the finish line lifted and watched my throttle arm fall off...... well since I had a spring on both sides my butterflies closed.

 :o

I had a hose get caught between the arm and the hat. Took a second to realize I was not slowing down
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 06, 2018, 04:45:54 PM
thanks all, ill put one on each side of hat if permissable and also i want to do one on the gas pedal too.

for power, just gonna run a dash logger and the transbrake.  so i picked up little 12v battery and made my own battery tray for it.  the solenoid is to provide power when master on/off is turned on. just will have little switch on dash panel.

(https://i.imgur.com/Qs7AvAH.jpg)

this is half way down the frame.  i think since im going to do a full body, ill make a bracket to mount to tab and put that up in the foot box area.

the tab welded to the frame is for fuel line mount down the middle.  im waiting for the bigger return line to come in, i get 20' at local steel place and just put male bungs on the end.  ORB's would be nice but more money and idk if it matters.  just that the ID would be bigger too on the ORB type fittings then the bung.  i had 3/8 ID but since half the fuel will be returned i order 1/2" ID alum. tubing.

ill do something similar for hte c02 bottle and mount it on the back.  just need to add a couple tabs in to do this as there is no place to attach the billet clamp too.
(https://i.imgur.com/kXJW0MS.jpg)
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 06, 2018, 05:01:27 PM
parachute levers.   since the plan is to run 7.0 eventually, i went and put two chutes on anyways.  my delima was the handles and location.  This is what i ended up with for location.   i really would of like to stick this handle setup in but i think if your only pull/pushing one at a time, it might be challenging to do. 
(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-biq04i/r5ih0/products/155/images/1237/dualRemote_2cables__77925.1421444765.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)

so, here i what i ended up with.  I seen this in Bills A/F FED so i figured id do the same thing.  only will be able to tell how it feels is when you get to actually use them. they are on the left side, ill swipe with right arm.  the right arm is the do-everything arm.  stage, trans-brake, shift, etc

(https://i.imgur.com/0oaqPT4.jpg)

next was to how-to run the p-chute cables.  i ran them so a cable would approach from outside of each bag.  also, (like everything on my fed, i got ideas from others.. so nothing is original lol... disclaimer :D )  i seen this attachment for the cables on the bags and thought it was clean and neat. 

(https://i.imgur.com/bWnGc1M.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QTyJtNm.jpg)







Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 06, 2018, 05:09:20 PM
run stands.

i want/wanted some run stands. eventually ill get some pro-jacks.  but for now the runs stands i think will be clean and safe to use rather then jack stands.

i had some 1 1/8" 062 wall cm tubing from my old car.  i was going to make set of wheelie bars for the old car.  since this was laying around i figured no sense in spending money on say 1" OD tubing so i used it.  now, im a beggineer welder so i figured it would be good opportunity to warp some tubing.. that i did haha.

i made the front one, which didnt turn out too bad.  welds suck but i think it will last a while before they all start to crack.  now i ventured on to make the back one and said, i got this now.. well. i didnt.  my gaps were way to huge, they were grand canyon size.. but i said screw it and plundered on anyways.  well, the back one turned out like crap.  it moved on me and i got so much heat in it it literally warped the top bar.

so, i called up Bill Comstock (a professional) and asked him to make me one for the back haha.  at least no worries of that sucker crackin and causing damage or hurting someone if something did fail in the pits.

here is the front one.  for the back one.. just picture yard art or.... maybe an end table haha.
(https://i.imgur.com/LqijIUE.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WUPfIt3.jpg)

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on July 06, 2018, 05:22:41 PM
torque convertor.

when starting this venture, i knew i would have to buy a trans.  so, this was about black-friday time.  i was looking at a few sites and for what i wanted, the trans was going to run about 4300 to 5k depending on whom you purchased from.  its overkill for what im doing but, my thought is in the long run its cheaper to spend the money now instead of going back down the road and upgrading.  also, get something thats has some value, and or if i change my mind and build a door car i have something good to use. 

first i got the trans, i actually scored on it.  BTE runs a 20 percent off for Black Friday week.  at that time the Sportsman trans was like 3400 bucks. i picked it up for 2700 with the discount. same trans year later was 3995.  i dont know why it was 3400 at the time.. but hey, saved me prob 1500 bucks at least.  here is link to trans https://www.bteracing.com/products/BTE074473

so, torque convertor.  i want a bolt together torque convertor for a few reasons.  first, if something happens (blow up trans or ??) i can clean it myself and put it back together.  second, i can get different stators for different power levels or track conditions.. who knows.. and lastly, if i did purchase a TC and it wasnt right i would have to send it back.. spend more money.. then hopefully it would work.

black Friday comes around and im lookin at BTE again becuase of the 20 percent off.. so i get the bolt together torque convertor with additional stator for cost of the convertor if no discount.  stators are only 150 bucks.  the convertor was 2k. one side is aluminum.

i know there are good companies out there like A1 that are good with the info you provide adn setting up convertors for you  and being spot on but this is what i wanted.

(https://i.imgur.com/ufJAMy9.jpg)


Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: denverflatheader on July 07, 2018, 08:21:08 AM
noslin - your sheet metal work nicely done, takes skill for it to look and fit right.  Plus locating dzus fasteners to align front to back and match flow.  Hand crafted foot pedals very different look, was good idea and turned out well.  A+ on tranny purchase, excellent buy waiting for right moment.  Alan

p.s. on dzus placement, I’ve seen some where dzus located such that rear wheel has to be removed to gain access; slight delay removing panel.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on August 25, 2018, 09:01:18 PM
noslin - your sheet metal work nicely done, takes skill for it to look and fit right.  Plus locating dzus fasteners to align front to back and match flow.  Hand crafted foot pedals very different look, was good idea and turned out well.  A+ on tranny purchase, excellent buy waiting for right moment.  Alan

p.s. on dzus placement, I’ve seen some where dzus located such that rear wheel has to be removed to gain access; slight delay removing panel.

Thank you sir for the complements, they are much appreciated.  trying to think/figure out how to do the front end tin.  shaping the nose will be interesting.

so i finished plumbing the fire system in the driver compartment.  i have no idea if it is acceptable or not.  so input would be nice as i can change it.  i put one pointing up at the torque convertor, one down by feet pointing kind of upwards and one at the steering thinking it would get the crotch area and hands; more crotch area.  i have never seen fire system work so im just guessing how the nozzle spray and also guessing what kind of force they may put out which would affect spray pattern.

thank you
Dean

(https://i.imgur.com/m4i5EEG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/TruXIok.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/f38Cyzk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/fPEZb8G.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QITzETt.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wklDXI5.jpg)

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: Oldboy on August 26, 2018, 04:49:06 AM
Mmmm. Nice work, especially love the seat pan, how'd ya do that, in awe.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: jeff/21 on August 26, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
nice work!
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on August 26, 2018, 06:21:54 PM
Mmmm. Nice work, especially love the seat pan, how'd ya do that, in awe.

oh, the chassis builder Bill Comstock did the seat pan.  he was going to use a carbon fiber seat but due to me being so tall he had to make aluminum one.  i think the CF one is 90 deg (guess) from back to seat and i think this one is probably a tad tighter, so the CF wouldnt work or fit correctly.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on August 27, 2018, 07:42:41 AM
I am also quite tall (6'6") and do have some back pain issues. When I had my chassis built (Advanced Chassis, Antwerp, Ohio) I took them a plywood template of my back in the seating position with appropriate lumbar support built in. It is very comfortable.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on August 27, 2018, 04:50:26 PM
I am also quite tall (6'6") and do have some back pain issues. When I had my chassis built (Advanced Chassis, Antwerp, Ohio) I took them a plywood template of my back in the seating position with appropriate lumbar support built in. It is very comfortable.

thats very cool and looks great.  its neat they were able to do the lumbar for you too.  gonna be a fun ride for you. 
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on August 27, 2018, 08:18:10 PM
Thanks noslin - its my avatar car. Been havin' fun with it for years.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: denverflatheader on August 28, 2018, 12:07:53 PM
Dean - maybe keep in mind when designing your sheet metal the couple areas that are more prone to wear and damage, like the front end.  Your future effort to repair or replace a complex design may help select the final shape.
       
For your fire system, running the feed lines and nozzles above the bottom of the adjacent frame rail is required per the nhra rulebook.  Your nozzle placements look like they’ll do suitable job, all located inside the frame rails. 

You’ve probably done this already; suited up with driving shoes/boots on and climbed in/out of the driver’s compartment by yourself to verify the feed lines and nozzles allow unblemished movement.  When activated, the fire bottle(s) must completely discharge, not sure of the force, you could test your nozzles with pressurized water to see the spray pattern and adjust as necessary.
 
When you’re ready to do final feed line and nozzle installations, you might consider a product like this one, or perhaps you already have them or something similar.  Alan

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Piece-Stainless-Steel-Metal-Zip-Ties-Straps-Wrapping-Exhaust-Locking-Pipes/323416367245?hash=item4b4d1e208d:g:kBgAAOSwt~5bg6mh

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on August 29, 2018, 05:53:22 PM
Dean - maybe keep in mind when designing your sheet metal the couple areas that are more prone to wear and damage, like the front end.  Your future effort to repair or replace a complex design may help select the final shape.
       
For your fire system, running the feed lines and nozzles above the bottom of the adjacent frame rail is required per the nhra rulebook.  Your nozzle placements look like they’ll do suitable job, all located inside the frame rails. 

You’ve probably done this already; suited up with driving shoes/boots on and climbed in/out of the driver’s compartment by yourself to verify the feed lines and nozzles allow unblemished movement.  When activated, the fire bottle(s) must completely discharge, not sure of the force, you could test your nozzles with pressurized water to see the spray pattern and adjust as necessary.
 
When you’re ready to do final feed line and nozzle installations, you might consider a product like this one, or perhaps you already have them or something similar.  Alan

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Piece-Stainless-Steel-Metal-Zip-Ties-Straps-Wrapping-Exhaust-Locking-Pipes/323416367245?hash=item4b4d1e208d:g:kBgAAOSwt~5bg6mh

Thanks Alan for the input, ive jumped in the seat many times but not with suit yet.  i  know that will change things but i htink with the nozzles, i think they will be out of the way of knees and feet.

so, i called Good Vibrations today asking about cable for the fire system.  The person was extremely helpful and got me to re-think how im setting this up.  my plan was to do two seperate systems and pull to activate.  In speaking with the sales person, he pointed out NHRA rule and also noted there are half dozen that he knows who have two seperate systems.  He mentioned one way to get around it is to hook both cables together if asked about it.

the other thing he brought up is to push and not pull.  He mentioned with/when doing the blind-fold test you dont want to be thrashing around trying to find handle to 'pull'.  so, since in the front i have it setup to do a pull from bottle end.  i would have to do same setup on drivers in so it is a push setup; which he pointed out people do set them up this way.

so, dilemma..  first is getting both handles in one spot that isnt in the way while getting in/out of fed.  secondly, building setup to make this a push setup; which is no big deal.. just takes up space.  lastly, maybe just set it up so both fire bottles as per rules and not do separate setup.. 

I understand the premise of having two seperate systems as if one blows you can use your bottle for the other one and save yourself some money not having to fill both bottles.  i guess the road block for me is getting both in one spot thats easily accessible and where i can tie both handles together if need be.  also, enough room to build the cantilever setup at driver end to make a push setup.

on a side note, i asked how much to refill 10lb bottle.  its $130 and recert is $35 per bottle. 
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: gregm784 on August 30, 2018, 07:50:43 AM
I run two sep systems on my dragster.  Both knobs are push to activate.  Both on left side of dash.  They are the only thing on the left side of my dash. 
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on February 09, 2019, 04:12:14 PM
ok, been awhile since posting progress.  long story short, where about 98% ready.  will start the motor this week sometimes, maybe make shake down runs next sat to get our feet wet then hit it harder the next weekend and see if we can get advanced et lic passes in so we can run 7.0 at march meet.

ill just post bunch of pics.  i did what i thought was correct but things can always be changed and some things probably will once we get some time in.

i attempted to do rear engine run stand and it did not turn out well.  so months later i tried again and it came out ok.  prob an inch or two narrower then id like but i hope it wil work ok.  eventually ill get some pro jacks.  i need to make couple plugs for the ends for the 1/2" pins to go into.  right now i put washers on each end thinking it would be ok.. but its not hahaha. 

(https://i.imgur.com/aFQLjUY.jpg)

so, im frugal (cheap).. i made a shift and oil light out of trailer marker lights.  i did this on my door car.  this is 9 LED light, it might not be bright enough but will see.  I have looked a little bit online at say 1157/1156 size bulbs and there are some out there. ill find another LED bulb that is bright and make some smaller diameter ones.  i probably have 10 bucks into each one.  they are 2" so a little big on OD.   I made the gauge pod and just painted it.  it wasnt really polishable and i was impatient making it to spend the time to sand and try to polish it.  i can get it powder coated down the road. 

(https://i.imgur.com/8pS7v5n.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SueREeD.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/eurK2YW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SYjwPjC.jpg)

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on February 09, 2019, 04:25:42 PM
My buddy Jeff (its his motor) goes to put on the coil plug wire on the coil and the end broke off.  so he had to order another coil.  even though it hurts financially right now as we are both scraping to get it running its probably a good thing it happened. 

so he gets a new coil and i needed to make another mount.  the coil uses spades instead of o-ring connectors. I dont really dig the spades. sence there are a few wires going to the coil and not having an isolated post i figured i would use some plastic sheet i have laying around and sort of make one.  If this doesnt work ill break down and get some from vtec

(https://i.imgur.com/zNUaJpQ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/fh9OMyB.jpg)

here is pic of the motor, just need to put the blow-down vents on and few misc other things. 

(https://i.imgur.com/CRJA7Yy.jpg)

i had to roll it out and put the vw in the back part of the garage.  i have to do some work on the vw so fig id put it in the back so make it easier to deal with the fed.

(https://i.imgur.com/jlSvuUk.jpg)

The chassis builder has to make me another fuel tank.  then i want to put a full body on it.  so that will be my task over the summer and maybe see about paint next year.  been thinking about what type profile nose to make for it.  eventually i would like to stick front wing on it and of course canards.

I have the stuff to do creaform pour-in seat. with any luck we will do that tomorrow.  Next week ill order some new skins for the back. I think im going to get the new Hoosier 33-15 x 15 stiff sidewall and see how that works.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on February 09, 2019, 05:01:26 PM
here is a better pic of the rear run stand. 
(https://i.imgur.com/RPCZxFG.jpg)

I made some lead bars this morning.  i work for a roofing company so was able to repurpose some flashing lead of tile roof. some of them are little tapered but i can re-pour them down the road if need be.  i dont know how much lead ill have to add so i made 70 lbs im guessing.  the mold by my calcs was 10lbs each bar.  i dont have a scale so ill have a freind weigh them. im guessing ill have to have at least 70lbs up front.  the two fire bottles im guessing weigh about 15lbs each?   the chassis is narrow up front so i might have to make them longer to get more weight if need be. 

wasnt really too bad doing the molds, used the burner at work that they use for soldering with and then got some map gas and put on the top side. once it melts, whatever you stick in goes pretty quick.  had to skim off the old paint from the flashing lead.  was kind of fun actually once i figured it out.

(https://i.imgur.com/wdBwoMI.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JWzEtIR.jpg)






Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: coupemerc on February 09, 2019, 06:12:31 PM
Super nice build Dean! Hope the testing goes smooth!
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: masracingtd1167 on February 10, 2019, 09:09:24 AM
I like your fire bottle mounts looks like a good way to keep weight on the front ! Car looks great !
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on February 17, 2019, 05:08:15 PM
I like your fire bottle mounts looks like a good way to keep weight on the front ! Car looks great !

thank you sir.  i think once i get the rest of the body done it will look a lot better. I really like the looks of a full body.

so today finally getting around to doing a creaform pour in seat.  one thing i like about the creaform is you have plenty of time to play with it and conform it.  when i purchased the kit from Pegasus Auto Racing i didnt know what size to get so i got the large.  I can say that is to much as you can see in the pics there is a lot of excess.  i would probably get the one that uses the largest bag but not so much material.  which i think is the large from them.  when i got the kit, it comes from Bald Spot Sportshttps://www.baldspotsports.com/ (https://www.baldspotsports.com/).  I would of purchased from them if i had done a little bit better research.  looking at BSS website you can see they do pro drag racing seats and they have a few vids online which shows pretty much how it goes.

so, initial after watching videos, purchasing a vac pump, gauge etc i did went about things as they show.   one thing off the bat i think i would do differently is heat up the resin and catalyst more.  its been in the house so about 70 deg.  it was pretty thick when went to go mix it.  it did not appear like it does in the vids. 

i mixed it up for few minutes to where i thought it was mixed well as could be then poured in.  it went right to the bottom of the bag and kind of clumped there.  i htink if was warmer and thinner it would of dispersed better.   i started to push and mix and really doesnt feel like anything is happening with the liquid interacting with the beads so that parts an unknown.  i did this about ten minutes as instructions say. 

i laid out the bag, taped the end, and then tried to even in it out thorughout the bag.  in the back of my mind i was concerned about the lower lumbar area and i think got to much or made it too thick through the torso area.   

went to stick it in the car and as you can see in the photos way too much material.  i jumped in real quick to kind pre-mold the seat then got dressed and jumped back in.  My buddy Jeff was helping me as this isnt really a one person job.  he pushed and needed around areas but in the end i think there is too much back up around the shoulder areas.  one problem is there is just too much material to deal with.  so, im hoping for one the resin did get everywhere and second ill be able to mold or sand a little bit tomorrow when i go to take it out and trim etc. 

so for now here is a couple of pics.  one thing, in the instructions they say 2lbs vac and i dont think the HF pump is pulling that;  but it is pulling a vacuum.  im not to confident right not that it will turn out ok but if this doesnt turn out ok ill get a smaller kit...  I wont use the fabric till it fits nice.  the other thing to note is, when your sitting in the seat without your suit on or any padding you kind of sit way down in there.  when you do the pour in seat, its amazing what one inch up and forward does for cockpit space. 

ill report back in a few days progress on how it turned out.

(https://i.imgur.com/4MuZHWB.jpg)

They say to smooth out the wrinkles.  i tried a little bit then said screw it.  i get to messin with things and ill mess it up more if thats the case.  i know a lot of that will be cut out. 
(https://i.imgur.com/I1366CB.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/jFnDIQr.jpg)
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 03, 2019, 09:38:47 PM
well, i scrapped the seat.  ill do another one down the road.  i know now that 25lb system is toooooo much.  the 15lb would of worked fine.  the material had no place to go.

anyways, we got the motor in and running.  our push is to make march meet which we are taking the fed but have few little things to work through.  one is, i didnt put the convertor in all the way.  motor is running, wheels are not spinning.  after speaking to few ppl thats the consensus.  everything is brand new and so it make sense.  will pull the trans back wenday and see or make the convertor go in  and should be good (i hope haha)

one of the great things about going to an event like this is all the knowledge that is available. that in itself is worth the trip.  My buddy jeff is the motor head (his motor) and he is making very good contacts and getting help from some great people.   weve both had great help along the way and really appreciate every bit of it and the people offering it.

anyways, enough jibber jabber.   here it is getting loaded.  i can get the fed and the cart in no problem in 28' trailer with 26' on the deck (cabinets)

(https://i.imgur.com/adHxp2T.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/DvjR6Ru.jpg)



Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on March 04, 2019, 06:24:30 AM
beautiful
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on March 04, 2019, 09:31:21 AM
Not to be a jerk although I frequenty am,  Tech might have a problem with the fire bottles that far in front of the frame, past the nose instead of behind

  3-11-19   March Meet
  Had some discussion with head tech liason for NHRA, one of the many things brought up and without mentioning names was the fire bottle mounting.  Ken Gentry (NHRA) stated that  although the bottles can be mounted outside the frame, the FIRST POINT OF CONTACT must be the frame and NOT the bottles.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 12, 2019, 06:26:40 PM
to be frank, you usually are.  ill only race two of those races and maybe one or two at sac for heritage.  if i get popped ill know who to thank are most jerks (whiners) are the ones to snitch.... Ill be more then happy to stay at home and race the local nostalgia races where they dont care about that crap. also, if it was really a concern i think ken would of been nice enough to notify me when he was AT MY HOUSE teching my car and also in the pits when i asked him a question.  Again, if its an issue it will be because SOMEONE BITCHED.... time will tell what jerk will bitch.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 13, 2019, 10:05:31 AM
Bruce, this just eats at me but it seems it's your nature to be Mr perfect and hall monitor. I've never even been in a few down the track untill Saturday.  It just amazes me that your concerned about some guy who is new to this type of racing. I would be lucky to win a round the first year out or even a race. 

Aside from that, it's the implication that I put them out there to gain an advantage.  I did it for weight as I figured it would need some. The other thing too is at 200 mph at the finish line between two cars your taking greater the .0009 feet in.001 seconds..  How many index races have you been involved in where both left exactly the same and ended exaclty the same.  I think this is a very very very ,.......... Very...  Rare occurrence. Maybe one in a thousand or more as a guess? . 

Times are changing, even though this is nostalgia race the cars evolve with time.  If you don't like the direction then change your car or maybe this isn't for you anymore.  I get you guys have a minimal setup but that's your decision. Just because the design of the cars have changed to what you view is not necessarily representative of the 60s isn't mine or anyone else's problem, it's yours.   

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: racerken on March 13, 2019, 02:50:20 PM
Bruce,  not trying to be a smart ass but that sounds like a screwed up NHRA answer to the problem.  How can the bottles be mounted autside of the frame and the frame be first point of contact?
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 13, 2019, 04:18:15 PM
now that im home and thinking about this a bit more even though im still pissed at the jerk.   my bottles stick out 4" max past the nose/end of the chassis.  legally i think your allowed up to 30" past the spindle center line.  the bitching is to the wheel but we will stick with what is legal per nhra.  if your ride doesnt fit it, thats your problem as noted.

200mph / 60 min/hr = 3.33 ft/second
3.33 ft /sec  / 60sec/min = .055 feet/sec
.055 ft/sec    / 60 = .0009ft /tenth of sec
.0009 ft / 60 = .000015 ft / hundredths.

since were assuming both cars are perfect like Bruce then it would probably come down to 'x' hundredths of a second difference.   since the distance is .000015ft and were talking about 4" the distance is really .000006 ft.. you guys are really going to bitch about that!   seriously?

as stated before, aside from Bruce being perfect.. how many races has anyone seen where the drivers have the same reaction time, same et, and same mph?   if you did how many runs have you watched in your life to see that happen?

we worked hard to get the car out to the track and you have to first insinuate this was done for an advantage and second you have to just kick a guy in the balls with this kind of BS.   just flippin ridiculous.
.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on March 13, 2019, 04:32:22 PM
If one were to contact the wall at a 90* angle, the frame has to make first contact (however small) before the bottles touch the wall, that is the only thing NHRA TECH has to go by. For me personally and I am a builder and not tech, I don't care for hanging the bottles out there and If I did, I would draw a line from the spindle end to the front of the chassis and the bottle be mounted behind the line a protected better at all angles of impact, But that's me. Where and how the bottles are mounted is not "protestable" unless the bottles are  out further then 40" from the lead spindle centerline. This is only a matter for Pre race TECH for which they can pass or fail the installation, NHRA chassis cert (K.Gentry for that area) is only concerned with the tubing spec behind the motor plate, and his job is done at that point and he's off to the next chassis.
 I am not perfect by any means known to man. I alerted you to possably an issue with how the bottles are mounted for whatever reason, and gave you a response as how NHRA views it, Whether you do anything about it or not, Whether Tech lets you slide thru or puts you back on trailer is the very-very least of my concerns. My only real concern, is when a FB does get knocked off and goes shooting off, is what new spec or ruling NHRA will come up with to prevent this from happening again
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on March 13, 2019, 06:18:12 PM
If 200 mph = 293 ft/sec
isnt that 29.3 feet per 1/10 of a second?
and
2.93 feet per 1/100 of a second?
and .293 feet per 1/1000 of a second?
.293 feet x 12 in/ft = 3.516 inches per 1/1000 second?
at 200 mph
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on March 13, 2019, 06:48:27 PM
I don't know where you got the idea that I was protesting the bottles in conjuction with overhand, Rules state that you can have no more than 40" from the center of the leading spindle to the furthest point forward of the car- That is the PRINTED rule that we all go by- and that 40" can be either the chassis, body, wing, and or firebottles  BUT- the firebottles mounted outside the frame must be located behind the frame tubing and not first point of contact
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 14, 2019, 02:02:12 PM
I don't know about the bottles bieng outside the frame rails and first pint of contact.  Where in the rules does it state this.

It's a mute point for my car as the bottles are under 40" from CL of axle.

If u pop me then pop the guy in a/fuel who has had them out there for years.  (I think it's a fuel, I have pic of car.)

If 200 mph = 293 ft/sec
isnt that 29.3 feet per 1/10 of a second?
and
2.93 feet per 1/100 of a second?
and .293 feet per 1/1000 of a second?
.293 feet x 12 in/ft = 3.516 inches per 1/1000 second?
at 200 mph

This would be correct. But then the question is not a foot but the difference beyond the legal stated distance over 40".  So hypothetically if it's 4" then say 1.2 inch roughly. That's how I would calc it.

Good to know it's 40" as that gives me room to extend the nose out further.  I'll be sure to make it a tall nose pc.

Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on March 14, 2019, 02:55:20 PM
If you are referring to Dennis Allens A/F with the bottles in front, they are mounted back from the front of the nose--- Try again
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: rooman on March 14, 2019, 02:59:02 PM
As some of you know Bruce and I have had our differences over the years but I am with him on this one. I don't give a xxxx about the advantage regarding front overhang etc but I do worry about putting cylinders of compressed substance out where any mishap involving contact with the wall, another car etc could knock them off the car and possibly tear the head off the bottle. I know that funny cars run them well forward in some cases but they are behind the front of the frame (and usually a weight bar as well). Mounting them so that they are the first part of the car to hit anything in a frontal impact sounds stupid to me.

Roo
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 14, 2019, 04:41:41 PM

i looked in the rules for 7.0 'support group 9' or general regulations 9:3 does it say ANYTHING about the fire bottles extending past the front of the frame.  please call out the section where it says nothing can be out in front of the frame.

as far as me putting the bottles out there, i understand the valid points with concerns to impacting a wall, another car, etc and potential hazards.  I have never been around these things till couple of years ago.  when i looked for the manual on how to build a front engine dragster and where to put things i could not find one.   everything you mount in the car is purely a judgemental decision, for one who has never done this, the judgement is limited due to inexperience and exposure to this type of vehicle.  to do again, i would probably do a few things different.  nevertheless In my mind i did nothing wrong with putting them where i did other then the points mentioned, which i did not consider.  so if you want to stick in my butt for being a novice and making what you feel is a mistake so be it.  i thought it was a cool idea and thing to do for weight concerns so i did it. 

tell me what else you feel is a problem so we can get on with it and make the necessary changes so we dont have this bs anymore.   

Dean
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: masracingtd1167 on March 15, 2019, 10:33:42 AM
Dean I work part time as a tech inspector for NHRA and from my view point you have done nothing wrong !  I value Roo and Bruces input and they do make a good point about the safety aspect of this ! I plan on re mounting my bottle in a similar manner so I am thinking of a piece of 3/8 tubing in front of the bottle to protect it in case of hitting a foam block or timing beam ! I read both the NHRA and Heritage rules and I can not find it any where so I would have to say it is legal to do ! As a tech inspector I try my best to help a racer out when there is something wrong and help them find a solution !
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on March 15, 2019, 11:07:49 AM
Its not always "whats in the book, but what is "NOT" in the book that tech can go by as the "BOOK" does not say you "CAN" either. You as a tech person can sign it off, Starter can shut him off at the line anyway if he feels it is not safe and thinks you missed seeing it. How many times in the tech line have you checked the helmet to roll cage distance??? There have been starters that will shut you off if they see your helmet too far out the cage.  Trying to argue "tech let me run it that way a month ago" never works.

  Its a grey-shady area, and since its well within the 40" overhang max, no need to build a new car, just add an extention to the frame at that point just to eliminate ANY possibility of it getting called out
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: masracingtd1167 on March 15, 2019, 11:43:01 AM
Bruce when I tech a car I go by the book as I was told by our tech director and if I have a question I will go to him and his first question is did you look it up in the book ! Last season I flunked a guy in top dragster because his helmet was expired and argued with me because he had raced all year and they told him it was fine ! I also had a woman yell at me and call me an ass hole because her husband lost from me putting him in the wrong lane !
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: Roger on March 15, 2019, 12:04:55 PM
Legal, probably. Safe,? You have a nice car with some nice workmanship, congrats. The only dog I have in this fight is safety, for you and the others at the track. Just by chance, the photo is from the current issue of National Dragster and shows what happens when a compressed extinguishing agent is expelled at a high velocity from a loose cylinder…instant unguided missile (upper right in photo). With your bottles so far legally forward they would be the first to encounter damage in an accident and could be broken loose or have the system rendered inoperable due to damage and would be of no use in the subsequent fire. I suppose the driver in the photo should feel relieved that the bottle wasn’t aimed at him…
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: dreracecar on March 15, 2019, 12:43:05 PM
Bruce when I tech a car I go by the book as I was told by our tech director and if I have a question I will go to him and his first question is did you look it up in the book ! Last season I flunked a guy in top dragster because his helmet was expired and argued with me because he had raced all year and they told him it was fine ! I also had a woman yell at me and call me an ass hole because her husband lost from me putting him in the wrong lane !
  If the racer had .063 aluminum steering arms bolted to the front spindles with 2 bolts, would you say something??? nothing in the book about it. Any crash where any person (driver or spectator) is injured, they pull the tech card and see who signed it off.

 Here's a gem---4:2 BALLAST As permitted in Class Requirements. Any material used for the purpose of adding to a car’s total weight must be permanently attached to the car’s structure and must not extend in front of or behind the rear of the car’s body
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 15, 2019, 01:30:32 PM
Well, if the tech inspector asks me if I did it to add weight I'll say no, I did it for safety . :o

I got a plan.  I'll extend the nose to legal limits and make a nice 12" tall flag at front so I can gain that 1" advantage assuming a perfect race lol. I was looking for a name for the car. I'll think I'll call it hammer head after this fiasco lol. (I'm joking  :P)

Thanks for the compliments everyone. Time to hit the track  ;D
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: masracingtd1167 on March 17, 2019, 06:25:56 AM
Yes Bruce I would say something ! Dean why don't you send a picture of your bottle mounts to your Division tech director and this way if you have to make a change you can do it ahead of time and avoid any problems when you go to the next race !
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 17, 2019, 12:26:33 PM
Yes Bruce I would say something ! Dean why don't you send a picture of your bottle mounts to your Division tech director and this way if you have to make a change you can do it ahead of time and avoid any problems when you go to the next race !

they are solidly and legally mounted.  just like N&P does, any altered, etc..   only issue is, as the jerk pointed out what is ballast per 4:2.   are they ballast or are they safety and how do you argue the point if questioned?  irregardless, ill extend the front out another ten inches like its really going to do anything if i do become a wall flower.  doesnt make a bit of difference if its a FED or altered, anyone who tags wall with the front and the bottles up front will have the same issue. 

Dean
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: Paul New on March 17, 2019, 08:22:14 PM
I would not consider those ballast as they are required by NHRA rules for the class you run in.  What I would say is you placed the weight you are required to carry in the most advantageous location
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: Rat on March 18, 2019, 12:36:24 AM
I think most everyone has a legitimate point in this thread but, sorry Noslin,  I lean toward the bottles should not be that exposed. Even when legally mounted look what happened just this past weekend at the Gators.

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/cox-uninjured-but-wrecks-brand-new-chevy-in-tafc-eliminations
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: Rat on March 18, 2019, 12:39:54 AM
PS Forgot to say nice build.  8)
How long before you hit the track.
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 18, 2019, 08:07:16 PM
PS Forgot to say nice build.  8)
How long before you hit the track.

thanks sir, made one little hit to about 400ft at MM. there is a FED race locally end of april.  hope to get a few hits in before then.

concerning the bottles.. im done with the conversation.

dean
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: Rat on March 19, 2019, 02:13:46 AM
 8) We also have a nostalgia meet at the end of April hoping to complete licencing passes beforehand so we can race.
Will be my first passes in many years, can't wait. ;D
Title: Re: new experiences - my 225" fed
Post by: noslin on March 19, 2019, 05:48:48 AM
8) We also have a nostalgia meet at the end of April hoping to complete licencing passes beforehand so we can race.
Will be my first passes in many years, can't wait. ;D

Good luck to you, you'll have a blast getting behind the wheel again.