FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum

Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: SaltandPepper on December 31, 2018, 05:19:20 AM

Title: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on December 31, 2018, 05:19:20 AM
Well last summer was a great summer that introduced me to the world of FED racing and I had a ball. Got a lot of good advice on this forum that enabled me to get into the mid 9s with my 327 small block. I am currently saving up coin to enable me to purchase a new engine but that will not be until the winter of 2020 so I am looking for some upgrades to install for this coming summer. I have pretty much decided to add some NOS to the mix, nothing big....maybe a 50 to 200 hp spray but need a little guidance on how to do this. The first piece I would like to add from this puzzle is a new set of pipes. I currently have a set of upswept headers on. They look great but to replace costs a bit more than I am willing to spend on pipes. I am looking at a set of 45* upsweep zoomies that I am keen on and are of reasonable price. In doing my research on spray I see that an EGT sensor seems to be a pretty vital part of the system. To do this however I will have to contact the company who makes the pipes and get them to fabricate a port into the zoomies for the sensor. Is my thinking pretty well on track to achieve a well functioning NOS system? If so is there a certain cylinder that is preferable to mount this sensor in? Any advice would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: fuel749 on December 31, 2018, 06:06:56 AM
To bad you're not looking to upgrade now, we're switching to a big block and have our stack injected 355 for sale..best of 8.78 in a 1600 pound altered
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on December 31, 2018, 07:27:08 AM
Sounds sweet but just not in the cards for 2019. The big game plan is to dump 20-30k into an engine in 2020 but as to which engine will take me some time to decide. For right now I have to work with what I got and get some more seat time under my belt.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: wideopen231 on December 31, 2018, 07:39:39 AM
Pm sent on zoomies.If can help let me know.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: dreracecar on December 31, 2018, 08:08:42 AM
Running gas, a 50-200 hit is really nothing as long as there are good parts in the motor and marginal if its a bone stock w/ the 200. (good head gaskets are a must) that unless you already have a EGT setup, its not nesasary. Guessing if you car weighs 1700# and running mid 9's, a 150hit will lower your ET 1 sec. Different manuf offer different probes and attachments. some its a SS npt bung welded, some is a propritary fitting, and Ive seen a probe attached to a hoseclamp so just a .250 hole in the header is all thats needed
  Check with who's group you run with as some Nostalgia groups do not allow NOS.
.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on December 31, 2018, 08:55:18 AM
Wideopen, reply PM sent. Good info here, I do not run with any group or race in any class....my racing is done on test n tune and grudge night only for the shear thrill of the speed and personal satisfaction. I am at a disadvantage in that when I bought my FED it was from an estate sale of a fella in Texas that had passed away. Thus, I got no info on it other than how to start it. From what I can tell someone put some money into the engine....it is definitely not stock so if I could go higher on the NOS that would be great and a 1 second shave off my time would make me ecstatic. I am not ashamed to admit also that I am rather green at running a FED with no previous experience with spray so learning to safely handle the increase in power is also my goal. I am considering purchasing a Stinger system with all the bells and whistles in which I could increase the power as I gain experience. The one thing I don't want to do is have a melt down and end my season next year early so that is why I am trying to gain as much knowledge as I can. Although I know that detonation is always a possibility I have read that if one is careful and has the right setup that running an engine with spray should be fairly consistent on the same motor.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: dreracecar on December 31, 2018, 09:13:01 AM
Right now at a 9.5 ET you are only around 400HP (if that). Stay with the Manuf recomendations of fuel supply and you will be fine, but get to know their Tech person by his first name. There are a lot of variables that effect performance when dealing with super high HP as Low ET's that affect piston life, in your case (8.50's @160mph) you are pretty safe with a small system, use a 500+ system, and problems will start to appear
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: wideopen231 on December 31, 2018, 09:47:49 AM
nitrous is deadly consistent. Keep same pressure in bottle and system in good working order and you are fine. As said small system is stupid easy and when you step up to big or multiple systems things get little more touchy.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: Paul New on December 31, 2018, 02:35:53 PM
Sounds sweet but just not in the cards for 2019. The big game plan is to dump 20-30k into an engine in 2020 but as to which engine will take me some time to decide. For right now I have to work with what I got and get some more seat time under my belt.

20-30k in an engine how quick are you wanting to run? That amount and you will need a lot of other to be upgraded.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on December 31, 2018, 03:05:39 PM
Sounds sweet but just not in the cards for 2019. The big game plan is to dump 20-30k into an engine in 2020 but as to which engine will take me some time to decide. For right now I have to work with what I got and get some more seat time under my belt.

20-30k in an engine how quick are you wanting to run? That amount and you will need a lot of other to be upgraded.

Paul, if one day I can match the best time that you have posted I would be on top of the world but I also realize that won't be tomorrow, LOL. I don't think this FED of mine has had one upgrade done to it since it was built in the 90s so I am expecting to dump some coin into it. I would rather pay a little more for a better quality part than take a chance and have to pay for it twice. If I can get that quality part at a more reasonable price which leaves coin to allocate to other places then that is great. 20-30k is going to be the piggy bank for the year 2020. I am considering a 432 SB with a roots blower @ 850hp....average price is 20K. Got to give that some thought, I realize the stress I will put on the other components.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: Paul New on December 31, 2018, 07:21:25 PM
Sounds like fun!
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: dreracecar on January 02, 2019, 09:28:52 AM
Sounds sweet but just not in the cards for 2019. The big game plan is to dump 20-30k into an engine in 2020 but as to which engine will take me some time to decide. For right now I have to work with what I got and get some more seat time under my belt.

20-30k in an engine how quick are you wanting to run? That amount and you will need a lot of other to be upgraded.

Paul, if one day I can match the best time that you have posted I would be on top of the world but I also realize that won't be tomorrow, LOL. I don't think this FED of mine has had one upgrade done to it since it was built in the 90s so I am expecting to dump some coin into it. I would rather pay a little more for a better quality part than take a chance and have to pay for it twice. If I can get that quality part at a more reasonable price which leaves coin to allocate to other places then that is great. 20-30k is going to be the piggy bank for the year 2020. I am considering a 432 SB with a roots blower @ 850hp....average price is 20K. Got to give that some thought, I realize the stress I will put on the other components.

  A 432 is pushing it,  Ive run a 375 (3.5 x 4.135) into the high 6.80's with moderate (nothing super trick) parts, simple thru the hat fuel system and a 3.5 amp magneto
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on January 08, 2019, 03:10:53 PM
OK, need some advice here......Just purchased a Pro Power cross bar NOS system from Nitrous Express with 2 10lb bottles. I am trying to figure out where I am going to mount the bottle for there are not a whole lot of options on this thing. I could mount it behind the seat but to change out bottles would be a major undertaking and really impractical. The only other option I have is to mount it in the nose but it would be in proximity of the fuel cell and the pump. I have purchased and plan to use a bottle heater. Placing it in the nose would be really practical for swapping out bottles but need no know if this would be acceptable.


Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: Paul New on January 08, 2019, 07:31:48 PM
Put any ballast you can in the nose of a FED odds are you do not need any extra weight in the back
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on January 08, 2019, 08:31:16 PM
How much does your car weigh with you in it ?
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on January 09, 2019, 04:09:50 AM
I have no idea about the weight, it is in the plans to take it to the scales this spring to find out. Since it is only a 165" FED I estimate between 1600-1800. I am already running 30lbs of extra weights on the nose. I lack about 3/4" of space to fit the bottle between the side rail and the fuel pump on either side now so I am thinking to move the pump and fuel line all the way over to one side and attempt the get the bottle centered as much as I can. This will also give me a few inches of space between the bottle heater and the fuel components.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: wideopen231 on January 09, 2019, 08:24:54 AM
Agree with on the nose. From everyone I have talked with FED's normally have to add to front and anything you can put there will just help eliminate adding more weight. Only down side to NOS system in front would be you will have to purge the line more to get max hit from it.,Hey that looks cool anyway,so maybe not that bad.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: Roger on January 09, 2019, 09:44:22 AM
After looking at the photo of your dragster, you might consider moving the fuel pump & filter to the right side of the car and putting the bottle on the left side. The bottle doesn’t have to be perfectly centered, you will already have the weight of pump, filter, & hoses on the right so a little to left of center shouldn’t effect anything. Will the mount & bottle fit under the body and still set at an angle?

As for which single pipe in a set of zoomies to install an EGT sensor, that will depend on intake manifold flow characteristics from cylinder to cylinder and every intake is a little different, among other things. I’d suggest just going with the manufactures recommendations. Using Bruce’s example, with your car making about 400hp now & running 9.5 - 9.6 ETs, just a 75hp hit of nitrous should put you into the 8.9s. I think NOS is a good idea, I’m wanting to try some later this year myself:)
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on January 09, 2019, 05:00:34 PM
Thanks fellas.....that was just the answer I was hoping to hear. I do have room in the front to keep the bottle at an angle and if I don't have to have it perfectly centered then I have room to keep the bottle heater away from the fuel system. I never gave any thought to having more weight in the front but it makes sense. I have a complete kit coming from Nitrous Express on Friday and will post some pics of the installation
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: afaulk on January 12, 2019, 09:51:11 AM
Sounds like fun!
     These cars are lightweight and you won't need the cubic inches to go real fast. Personally I'd stay away from the longer stroke. I know there are several ways to do it but when you add the blower you won't need the longer stroke. Big bore/short stroke/long rod is a good way to go and 1000+hp is very VERY easily reached. Also with the blower you wont need to turn a lot of rpm. I only have 370" 10-1 compression with a street blower, no stripping and driven at 1-1 and shifting at 6,400 its running in the mid 4.70's eighth mile which is 7.60 qtr mile. Either way, be safe and have fun.
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on January 17, 2019, 12:16:56 PM
Having a ball working on my FED over the winter and always love to see the UPS truck pull up. This week they brought me a present from the Carolinas . Wideopen custom made me a set of zoomies at a very reasonable price and shipped them to me. Being that he used Stahl flanges I had to purchase a set of Stahl adapter plates that are better quality than what I had on to begin with. Love the new look of my FED now that I don't have to constantly watch those hot upsweep headers. Thank you Wideopen for a quality product and a job well done.


Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: SaltandPepper on January 17, 2019, 12:28:54 PM
As far as the Stahl adapter plates go, I have a bit of a dilemma. The exhaust ports in the plates are quite a bit smaller than the head ports. I saw a comment about this on Jegs when I ordered them and common sense tells me to open them up to the same diameter but want to get some advice on this. One would think that stuff like this on a SBC would kinda be universal but I guess not. Also, the bolts I took out that bolted the old adapter plate to the head looks like they were installed with anti-seize on them. When I bolt the new adapters on for good should I use anti-seize?


Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: masracingtd1167 on January 17, 2019, 12:37:31 PM
Yes open them up to the same as the port size of the head ! The header itself will be bigger than the plate and that is fine !
Title: Re: Spring upgrades....
Post by: wideopen231 on January 18, 2019, 06:06:41 AM
Spray back side with machinist dye(sharpie works also),attach to head use a scribe to mark remove and grind to match port.  Try to keep same angle as port floor and roof when grinding. Will actually pick up exhaust port flow.  Look at AJPE heads FOR Hemi the exhaust ports are extended  for this reason. Glad to hear plate corrected bolt issue.