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Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: Kentucky Mark on January 13, 2019, 03:28:57 PM

Title: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 13, 2019, 03:28:57 PM
I've been out of drag racing for some time!Went to a show yesterday and I think I've got the bug again.My starting point would be a 450hp 327 Chevy and a Dana 60.I do body work and Fab work for a living .Would like to build a old school rail from scratch.Any advice from anyone here would be appreciated

Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: wideopen231 on January 13, 2019, 05:09:04 PM
SFI spec on what ever spec you want to build to.  if don't have plans you can get them from Mark Williams.S&W or Neil and Parks I think have a set they sell.Neil and Parks would be my choice. Great guys.Have every piece you might need,brackets and specialty items. Frank and Scott are super helpful. Also Roo man on site is great for info. Main thing is motor and rearend alignment.

Building yourself is butt load of fun and personal satisfaction. I know.It can get to be drugout if money becomes issue,I know this too well. Get collection of fed videos on computer,great motivation.

Read thru Roo mans section here lots of helpful tips. Build and enjoy. Always willing to give advice for what it worth. My email is wydopn2312@yahoo.com and if need phone chat is heck of lot easier than typing.LOL
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 13, 2019, 06:15:17 PM
Thank you sir!
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: jeff/21 on January 13, 2019, 09:20:59 PM
enjoy yourself!
if the dana is not narrowed to the width you need, I would sell as it's worth good money and buy something lighter as you don't need all that beef
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 14, 2019, 02:18:50 AM
Nine inch ? I've only raced a heavy door car bigger was better!lol I was leaning toward the Dana as it's a full floater?
Thanks
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: rooman on January 14, 2019, 04:42:00 AM
One problem with the Dana is that it IS "bigger and better" and for that reason it is a little bulky to be draping your legs over. And if it is not already the correct width for a front motor car narrowing it is a bitch. I generally use the Strange H1110/2 housing as it is compact and makes for more room in the cockpit.

Roo
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: jeff/21 on January 14, 2019, 11:38:35 AM
 yes 9" is good lots of parts,easy to work on, aftermarket housings come in all shape and sizes check out the one Roo uses
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: dreracecar on January 14, 2019, 11:42:31 AM
With that combo, plenty of Mopar 8 3/4's out there, small-cheap- easy to work on, The car will weigh in at around 1500#, no need for a gynormas and heavy rear end. Although a 9" is popular, its still on the side of overkill and not cheap to build
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: rooman on January 14, 2019, 11:57:24 AM
I've been out of drag racing for some time!Went to a show yesterday and I think I've got the bug again.My starting point would be a 450hp 327 Chevy and a Dana 60.I do body work and Fab work for a living .Would like to build a old school rail from scratch.Any advice from anyone here would be appreciated

Did Shaw's section at the Cavalcade of Customs suck you in?  :)
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 14, 2019, 02:44:40 PM
Yes it did
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 14, 2019, 02:46:15 PM
I'm kinda halfway there with a fresh engine
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: retroboy on January 14, 2019, 08:04:36 PM
I'm an expert on budget builds and the best advise I can give you is don't get sucked in by all the stuff guys are going to tell you that you need.  What worked 20 years ago will still work today. Good luck and enjoy yourself.
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: jeff/21 on January 14, 2019, 08:27:39 PM
retroboy is right things haven't changed much except for electronics and EFI which you don't need, you don't need trick parks keep it simple and start with a plan get parts that work together don't over build make strong and light and safe
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 15, 2019, 02:16:37 AM
I agree completely I want something to run 8-10 times a year that won't break the bank and eat parts constantly
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 15, 2019, 02:34:46 AM
Can you build one with mild steel tubing?At work we build all our rock buggies with mild steel and it so much easier to work with than chromoly.Im going to get sfi book shortly and a new NHRA book the one I have is from the mid nineties lol
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: SaltandPepper on January 15, 2019, 04:03:45 AM
As a newbie myself here I don't have much to offer but I can chime in a little. Sounds to me you are looking for something very similar to what I have....165" FED with a 327 and 9 inch rear. When I took mine to have the chassis inspected the fella did tell me it was constructed of mild steel. This car was built in the 90s with very little upgrades till I got it and it has been a fun car to start with. I don't know what length you are considering but at 165" it fits in a 24' trailer very neatly with plenty of extra room for gear. I currently have the 9 inch out of it replacing gaskets, o rings, ect…and found that it is manufactured by Strange with 4.56 gearing. This size and setup of this FED has been very consistant and affordable to me. They are right about the size of the rear. Is not a lot of wiggle room and the 9 inch is very comfortable to me when in the seat....any bigger and I could see problems getting in and out of the car. As a beginner to this type of racing I have been pleased to get down to mid 9s my first year....most people dream of a 10 second car. Good luck with the build and post some pics of it. This forum has proved extremely valuable to me for info. I think the first words some of these guys uttered as a child was......horsepower.
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: rooman on January 15, 2019, 04:41:52 AM
Apart from the weight factor the biggest advantage to using 4130 is the ability to step the frame rail diameter down in 1/8" increments. If you use  anything apart from DOM mild steel the wall thickness requirements preclude the ability to slip one tube inside the next size up unless you bore the larger tube and that is as much work as using 4130.

Roo
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: wideopen231 on January 15, 2019, 05:11:53 AM
IMO noway would I build with mild steel. Molly is lighter,easier to step down as Rooman pointed out. As one builder said steel is for tractors and molly for race cars. At half the weight its cheap performance gain and when you decide to get rid of it you will be able to sale and get little of your money back. Plus the moly for my car was around 1100 bucks and with me riding in it thats cheap IMO.
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 15, 2019, 06:40:55 AM
I appreciate everyone's input while I'm researching I only want to do this the right way
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: dreracecar on January 15, 2019, 08:16:48 AM
Mild steel is a pain to use and has low resale value. Its heavy, some wall thickness does not meet spec, takes longer to fit. Legal CM telescopes together so it can be sleeved and step down in size. The only real disadvantage of Moly to the home builder is that it must be Tig welded and not wire feed so your fitment must be exelint and not just close. Mild also moves around a bunch when welding, if you dont understand the welding sequince , it will be bent before you put the car together and in a dragster the motor to rear end aliginmet MUST be dead on;
 You want a budget car, buy used, its around .35 on the dollar spent. Its gets you out there quickly and you will discover likes and dis-likes to help you plan on your next build. Two things to remember--- Get fully suited up and see if you fit (minor adjustments if needed) and make sure there is an SFI tag on it, the tag can be out of date which is fine because you know it still can be tagged
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 15, 2019, 04:40:31 PM
I'm going to try and look at some cars when spring rolls around but I don't that I would fit in most used cars 50 inch chest and all shoulders most cars you see are built for small people for some reason???
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: jeff/21 on January 15, 2019, 04:51:15 PM
 there isn't a big price differential between DOM mild steel and CM .  either will work as stated CM frame the resale value is better and easier to sell but needs more experience is needed to weld but the big thing is alignment and how far out you want the motor, a Greek Coupler is the best  but I used a trans yoke- U-joint diff yoke with no problems 406 sbc/ powerglide
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 15, 2019, 07:09:55 PM
We use chromoly at work on some buggy's and sand dragsters.ive always thought it's brittle expensive and hard to work and cracks seem to run compared to do?I have way more experience with mild steel we build bombproof rock buggy's with BBC engines and Rockwell's but they don't have the NHRA inspection and sfi specs like the dragsters.resale will not be an issue with what I build it will be a keeper the people here seem to know there stuff and I never have been the kind of person to find someone to answer my questions with the answers I want there is a lot of knowledge to be found here and I appreciate it
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: rooman on January 16, 2019, 04:33:31 AM
We use chromoly at work on some buggy's and sand dragsters.ive always thought it's brittle expensive and hard to work and cracks seem to run compared to do?I have way more experience with mild steel we build bombproof rock buggy's with BBC engines and Rockwell's but they don't have the NHRA inspection and sfi specs like the dragsters.resale will not be an issue with what I build it will be a keeper the people here seem to know there stuff and I never have been the kind of person to find someone to answer my questions with the answers I want there is a lot of knowledge to be found here and I appreciate it

As Jeff noted, 4130 is not much more expensive than DOM and if you are finding it brittle, hard to work and prone to cracking you are doing something wrong.

Roo
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 16, 2019, 05:32:03 AM
Yes that why I'm a little apprehensive about chromoly .I'm a certified welder steel/ aluminum probably need to do more research or more practice I've built cars for 30 years thanks for your comments roo man
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 16, 2019, 05:35:46 AM
Roo do you happen to know who owns the blue FED that was at the cavelcade early 60s sbc car can't find any info on it? I messaged Shaw today? That's the style I'm after and it's just a sweet old simple rail .Thanks again
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: rooman on January 16, 2019, 09:29:34 AM
I did not make it to the show this year so I can't help you on that (unless it was Dave Huber's car---https://www.hotrod.com/articles/this-guys-garage-dave-huber/)

Roo
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: dreracecar on January 16, 2019, 11:53:18 AM
I'm going to try and look at some cars when spring rolls around but I don't that I would fit in most used cars 50 inch chest and all shoulders most cars you see are built for small people for some reason???

  Along those lines you might be better suited for an altered as they tend to be wider, Dragsters now run around 19.5 inside between the shoulders and altereds around 23"-24" between the tubes. It has to do with the body/looks of the dragster. To get a good look, you dont want so much taper from the shoulders to the motor plate because it will look like a slice of moms apple pie, an altereds body hides it
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: wideopen231 on January 16, 2019, 02:49:59 PM
 As for budget.Look at this way. Chassis is most important and least expensive. That is if building yourself especially true. I think my chassis materials,mid plate,aluminum for body all total was around 3000.Now I got deal on spindles,had steering box and made rear end housing. Now the labor to build it gets pretty steep especially if  you take too long and redesign few pieces. Now compare that cost to a well built trans and converter which I have probably 4000 in and that with some rocking deals.
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 16, 2019, 03:30:45 PM
Thanks I learn more Everytime y'all post on this I'm gonna talk to our meteal supplier next week and price some material
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: dreracecar on January 16, 2019, 03:50:46 PM
You can go online to Aircraft Spruce and look at there tubing charts for material. Good prices and consider you basicly buy by foot so you dont have to buy the full length--only what you need, They have a east coast outlet in Georgia. A 225" SFI spec car Im doing now , I have about $1000 in tubing
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 16, 2019, 04:42:45 PM
It was a Mickey Thompson dragmaster chassis!and it belongs to Dave Huber Rooman knows his stuff! Could you build that chassis and have it NHRA legal? If wearing y'all with these questions I appologize but appreciate the input
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: AF150 on January 17, 2019, 08:00:14 AM
Don't forget to get the SFI book. No sense building something that won't certify.
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: dreracecar on January 17, 2019, 09:24:23 AM
It was a Mickey Thompson dragmaster chassis!and it belongs to Dave Huber Rooman knows his stuff! Could you build that chassis and have it NHRA legal? If wearing y'all with these questions I appologize but appreciate the input

  Best to get in touch with the NHRA Chassis tech inspector for your area to answer that question before moving forward. He will guide you since the design you are after is not shown in the SFI spec book and you may be restricted to 10sec or slower
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: jeff/21 on January 19, 2019, 08:14:22 AM
simple answer is yes it can be built from mild steel ERW (cheap)the car will be heavier as the SFI spec is for thicker wall tubing
SFI book will answer a lot of questions
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: dreracecar on January 19, 2019, 08:48:36 AM
current mild steel tubing wall is undersize for the spec and will not pass if the car must be stickered
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: dreracecar on January 19, 2019, 11:21:25 AM
old school
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: Kentucky Mark on January 20, 2019, 04:19:15 PM
Thanks for the info
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: speedbump on February 18, 2019, 04:08:08 PM
Welcome back to the sport. If your planning on a fed. 9" ford or Mopar will be more then sufficient. The mopar would probable cost less. Biggest item of concern is to build your cage area wide, 20-21" at the shoulders. This will be one of your biggest resale issue if you ever want to sell in further. Just buy the book for the sfi chassis that you may want to run. or have some one build you the chassis so they can fit mtr. trans and rear in properly. well good luck and enjoy yourself.
Title: Re: Budget rail
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on February 18, 2019, 05:04:40 PM
When you are ready for front wheels and tires, I may have some trade-ins on a deal.
Good Luck with your project I would advice you to listen Bruce Dyda, and Rooman
Jon Hansen, Hayden Wheels, 800-624-3803