FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: dusterdave173 on April 22, 2018, 07:24:19 AM
-
Because it is WORTH IT!!
Yesterday at Greer SC Hotrod Reunion 3 we made three great runs---weather was 70 degrees sunny and perfect--first run 5.69 like always then we added a 18% mix of nitro and bam! 5.34
putting car away last night--oil was good clear--compression test was on the money--plugs looked Perfect! Pipes had just a little bit of tack---lash all good so.....30% here I come baby all indications are it will eat it like candy--
I did add a qt of Tolulene to my 5 gal mix There were zero signs of detonation so going to try it next time out--I do plan on rich it up one pill from current 75 to a 70 Timing at 39 and the color was right at the bend in the ground strap
There is a video up on Youtube search David Kluttz Dragster Greer Reunion 3 I used a $90 video camera and I am 60 and can't edit but hey it is something at least
Car got up on the tire very well during the run--It pulled like you jumped out of an airplane with a cement mixer strapped to your ankle!! I mean she was PULLING Hard!!!
-
That's a nice gain in performance ! Have you ever checked your cranking compression ? Mine is down from 225 to 210 by retarding the cam 2 degree's ! I plan on closing up my intake valve lash to see if it will lower it a little more !
-
Yea I see what you are doing
I am at 13.6 - 1 cam is a 108 270/275 at 050 do not know intake closing spec
I feel like from looking at plugs etc that I can use higher % up to a point--think with my compression ratio I am limited to max of maybe 30% decided that since my actual % at race time was about 18% ( not 20 I had listed) that my next batch will be at 25% for first pass---
If I had known I was going this route I would have built a nitro specific unit but fell into this by running some M5 and then 10% and now wow! i am hooked---figure it is better than a blower at this point--with blower I start all over with converter etc I just want a 4.90 whatever time slip no weight to be lost so it is watch the plugs and keep climbing
I have a -0 pump 75 pill on most days and 14 nozzles---so nozzles are limiting also I guess had some 18's but sold them never dreaming would go this route but
I LOVE the way the car has responded so I am going to re read Spuds notes a dozen more times and be careful as I can be My cranking compression is around 225 ish If it comes down to it I can add head gasket thickness pretty easy
Sure is fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
I have run a 75 pill since car was built--she always runs great--never milks oil though my BV leakage is higher than many at 30% ( .002 thou on blades ) always figured she was fat but really now looking back I think maybe it was pretty close to dead on--I have never shown any heat up the plug threads at all NGK 5671-8's Vertex mag
I have never tried leaner or richer pill because she always acted great so why mess around with it but figure go to a 70 with this next jump just to be safe as possible
ALL help and thoughts much appreciated
All in all 20% has been a cake walk so far
I do have alum rods in this engine and alum heads
Using Tolulene as Spud suggests thinking it is doing the job so far
-
I have not run mine with nitro on the track.I did pick up 5 gallons to play with. If sound and response are indication 20% will be fun. I fired it off last weekend and got it tuned close. Since I had a jug of nitro ,I couldn't resist. Mixed up 1 to 4 gallons in jug and filled the tank. MAN that sucker came to life. As soon as windshield and helmet pads are back and I find a trailer its time to see if all this work pays off. Hopefully cpl weekends and she will be ready for booster shot.
You guys already playing make me sick.LOL
-
Dave where are you getting nitro? I bought this I have last years at national event from a A/Fuel guy. There was guy on DRR in Florida who had stated he could get it 20 bucks a gallong ,just not NHRA blessed. Would like to find a source close by to get some from time to time.
-
We get 5 gal cans of VP it is $150 Yes in drums it is WAY cheaper but I could not use a drum in many seasons--I have used some years old nitro and when stored in sealed jugs it does stay good from what I have seen
It is the best stuff I have ever bought
My ultimate goal is run 50% safe and that will be plenty fast enough for me
-
So you just tip and go. Hmm what about all the biz about needing different barrel valve spool and stuff 'coz it burns at a different A-F ratio? Good to hear it works as is. Hmmm..
-
At small percentages you can get away with the spool as is but it will get marginal if you get too enthusiastic with the pop. On Dave's deal, if pill change from a #75 to a #70 was enough to make it run good I would think that it was probably a little on the fat side on alky even if he was not seeing any appreciable oil dilution. On Vaught's blown alky small block we will make that big a change just to compensate for atmospheric variations.
Also, with larger percentages and high compression you need to be careful with making sure that there is no fuel puddled in the chambers--make sure to kill the motor with the fuel shut off and if in doubt pull the plugs and spin the motor over. On a hemi any excess fuel will simple run out the exhaust port as the valve is pretty much the low point int he chamber but with wedge style heads there is plenty of opportunity for excess fuel to collect at the bottom of the chamber and the results can be disastrous.
Roo
-
Yes we have been very careful--Thanks Roo good to know
I have not changed to pill yet was going to do that when I go to the higher % mix on next outing
It ran perfect on our standard st up 75 pill 38 degrees timing picked up 3 tenths in the 1/8th
I just have a 355 CI
I think anything above 30% and then the BV , nozzles, maybe even pump size will come into play
AF ratio is pounds of air to pounds of fuel right? So at lower percentage the nitro actually being heavier it works out it does not need to be richer until you get percentage above maybe 20 ?? I am not taking a chance though tune up signs say it is great I will start with a 70 next time out and tune from there
We have been warming up on alky--draining at the tank bottom--then filling with Nitro that way we have alky in main line for fire up
again....I am fast approaching the limit I can expect to run with my set up where I have to start changing lots of stuff so my plan is go with what I have --watch the plugs and pipes and try hard not to hurt anything
I guess my message is read Spuds Nitro Notes about a dozen times and if you are not lean then slap in 20% and go--
worked for us so far
-
Dave if you need to you could go to a colder plug . I am using 10's in mine and might try an 11
-
Dave...
Way back in the late '90s we changed our jr/fuel set-up over to nitro in order to run
NE-1 at the West coast events. Our combination was:
406 ci small block Chevy, 10.5:1 compression, iron heads that flowed 306 cfm @ .700,
PG150-1 pump with Hilborn 30A nozzles. Barrel valve @ 28 %. Car was a Hollander/Brown FED 190" wb that
weighed 1475 on the starting line. 4.10 rear & Goodyear 12-30X15 tires. Powerglide had 1.76 low gear.
Conditions were good at the March Meet in 1999. Density alt.at first pass was 1074 ft. Mixture was 35% nitro, .092 main, high speed at 70 psi and ignition at 40°.
Result was 1.12 60', 4.76 1/8th. 7.46 @ 179.78 1/4 mile.
NE-1 index was 7.50 at that time so we backed off to 30%, qualified @ 7.52 and
Managed to win the race on a double breakout 7.49 to 7.46 final.
This combo was very durable and won a lot for us. No bearing problems or breakage.
Fuel set-up credit goes to Gene Adams and Jim Archer. Hope this helps.
PS...Jim Scott now owns this car and still runs it out West.
Mike
-
Thanks Mike!
I worry that my alky compression ratio of over 13.5 is my limiting factor for sure
I am running an NGK 5671-8 plug they look great--no heat up the threads at all so had not thought about colder plug yet but I need all the help I can get here
Thanks everyone!
I know I need to leave harder for starters I had been foot braking--did install a trans brake but have not tried it yet
Thanks Everyone!!!
-
How much stall change so far. According to Spuds TQ calculator I should pick up 250 lbs at 30% and that should be 700 to 800 more stall according to FTI. Will probably get second converter for car.One for alky and one for nitro. Present converter is 6600 on alky ,will have to check with nitro mixture.
-
The hotter plug will nip the ground strap and warn you before you get to aluminum if your lean. 33% is where things change. I can't speak to your compression ratio/cam combo but my BBC @ 12.4 was the same jet/timing with 30% as straight methanol. It started to slow down as I added %. converter becomes more critical.
Welcome to the addiction.
Mark
-
Howdy Dave (and everybody else)
A mate of mine is a privateer trying to run NHRA Funny Car. I was talking to him this morning and he said including warm ups he uses a drum of fuel in 2 passes! Also mentioned fuel is the cheap part of running a Nitro FC !
Cheers
-
You guys are so lucky being able to get nitro so easily, here in the UK you have to have a Home Office (that's like Homeland Security) registration to buy nitro. Its because nitro can be used for bomb making by terrorists, you also have to keep records of use and you cant sell of the back of your trailer. Basically you have to be a company and if your claiming sponsorship to have a decal on the car. I only want to try 20% or so and not buy a 55 gallon barrel which would take me forever to use and I couldn't sell on to another racer. I've seen small quantities of 20% for radio controlled model cars but because they have 2 stroke engines, castor oil is added for lube. Would smell nice but not do much for the plugs! Has anyone tried it?
-
Find a 5 gal can--it last forever--will not go bad and that much will let you run 20% for a long time
don't forget about 1 qt of Toluene added to a 5 gal mix really seems to help prevent detonation--it is 420 a gal at the paint stores here
5 gal can nitro is $150 here
find a racer that will sell you 5 gal on the sly and go for it
-
27 BUCKS A Gallon this weekend at Charlotte. Had to fill some paper work. Heard bunch of BS about not being able to have it w/o homelland Security.As turn out 44 gallons or less you are fine. Picked up 20 gallons for playing,figure if keep it 20% to 30% I should be godd for little while,still have to get car tuned out on alky before making run with it plus will need converter to make a dedicated system to maximize nitro setup. After firing up cpl weeks ago on 20%(volume) I know I a in trouble,throw in a weekend around A/fuel and its not going to get better.LOL
Sherwin Wilaims is 26 a gallon for tolulene checked last week to see if they carried it and they could get it in in 2 days.
-
I picked up tolulene at ACE Hardware here $19 and my Sherwin williams had it same rate
5 gal of VP nitro available at many tracks and easy as paying to get it no paper
-
well Sunoco required paper work.As for amount could get any amount just had 4 jugs so had all filled.
Which tracks are you finding it at Dave?
-
Gibbs at Mooresville will get you what you need he orders fuel every week--you pick up at the track zero issues
Call Donny at Gibbs Race Cars in Mooresville tell him I sent you
-
Will remember.With 20 gallons on hand and will be mixing only 20%(thats funny) well maybe little more.But only occasionally , I should be good for while. Working on parts for complete second system later on. Idea is unbolt intake and pump and drop on set up for nitro. Wishing I hadn't sold that other K style BV now.
-
Got bored today and heard that stuff calling. Mixed up batch if about 33% to wake the neighborhood and it worked.LOL Hey 20 gallons sitting here with drum of alky,not my fault.
Stuff is like crack just pulls you in,but dang its COOL!