FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: wideopen231 on October 08, 2022, 06:43:09 AM
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Since legal and cheap(ha ha ha) power. Wondering if any in 7.0 NE are running nitro to get them to 7.0. I figure my combo shoule be good for 7.0 or very close.I know if need I can run 30% with no changes except maybe converter. I do not think would need that much nitro to get little I might need.
So you know of anyoner running small loads to make a field?
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I will be next season in my car. 511 BBC 4.350" X4.375" All cast iron Littlefield 8-71 10.5:1 ,3:70 RP , 200" Uyehara FED . I worked closely with Bob Szabo on low percentage combos. They work very very well. Very little OD on blower needed. The AF ratio is such that it is Uber repeatable even as weather changes.
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Gordon. Don't advertise all the positive reason for it. Just wanted to know if any where doing so. ZDon't give other idea or everyone will and a new rule will be made.LOL
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Haha I want to run nitro too.
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Gordon, anywhere I could read about this?
I'm seriously thinking of playing with small loads.
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Yes There are two very good resources . First Our own host here "Spud Miller" Has spent years learning Magnetos, Mechanical fuel Inj. and of course the use of Nitromethane. Spud has on his Website somewhere still a compilation of his findings and advice on running different %'s of Nitro even for bracket racing. He hides no secrets , Spud willingly shares info with his customers. Spud wants you to enjoy success. I might be stepping out of line here and if so please forgive me as I am an open Kimono kind of guy. The other excellent Source on this subject is Bob Szabo , long time close friend of mine and racer. Bob also has gone down the long road of learning this stuff using the scientific method instead of monkey see monkey do that has proliferated Nitro and Mechanical fuel injection use. Both of these men come from Science/Engineering backgrounds . When some one would tell them something was gospel about FI or Nitro , they did not swallow the info until they could prove it or disprove it with facts. If either one of them tells you something to help you, take that check to the bank and cash it. Search Spuds website for his notes, Call Him, Email him, the same with Bob Szabo . If you are serious about running even small amounts to help your performance they can help. I could go on more about what each one has done to help me and my efforts through the years , but that won't help you. Reach out and call them.
And when you do call them tell them Flash Gordon said to call them.
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I ran nitro in both 7.50 and 7.0 classes for the past 20 yrs, from 25% to 80%. 392/417 hemi, direct drive in a FED. What are you wanting to know? Steve K.
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Steve, you do that with a blown application?
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I run 7.2 at 192 NA. My new engine at a minimum is 300hp more Naturally Aspirated than the previous. I won't need the Nitro as I will go to fast for 7.0 Pro :D. So looking forward to next spring. I will run a 25-30% load to push the new engine combo, as this is an engine our company will be producing soon. Expensive but after running 98% in Nostalgia Top Fuel it's hard not being around it.
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Thats funny I asked same question ob Facebooks 7.0 and was they had never heard of anyone running nitro in 7.0 class.. While the fuel is not cheap. Neither are blower belts, restraints stripping not bad or any type of maintenance on race car. Fig ure I take a bracket combo that is close but need little more and it is fairly cheap way to get that extra oomph. I now one racer he swears 20% picked him up almost .2 with mild combo. I know 30% WILL SEND STALL up about 700 RPM on data logger. One reason I figure keeping percentage lower will be better for my deal right now.
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I ran nitro( up to 40%) in NE3 and then NE2 haven't needed it on the current 462.
Curious what the power HP/Torque % increase would be possible in ..... a 1300HP NA engine on 10%, 20%, 30%
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Kyle, yes, blown.
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Chris, in the NDRL there were I think 3 of us running nitro, but I was the only blown car. Blown nitro is not legal in 7.0 for the heritage series (it is legal in 7.50) but the NDRL had an agreement with HNRA for the only heritage race we ran at the reunion in Bowling Green.
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Well that rule is fine with me. My car is injected Hemi.While I do have everything to run blower except a small enough blower(LOL), I would like to keep it just injected. Nothing against blowers been running them in TA/D and TA/FC for decades. I have been working with A/Fuel team and the nitro injected deal is just cool as xxxx. While I would like to run an A/Fuel in Nostalgia , that would mean major changes and cash out lay I don't have now days. Running 7.0 is enough stretch right now. My little 482 ci Hemi should be closer to 950 hp and figure the 15 to 20% would put me past 7.0 just enough to be competitive with little pedaling on top end. Thinking the biggest out lay of money will be updating few items plus new converter and about only change from the weekend bracket combo.well remove electronics for sanctioned events
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The other excellent Source on this subject is Bob Szabo , long time close friend of mine and racer.
Bob has written a pretty good book on exactly what you are trying to do - take a fairly successful combination and then squeeze a few more ponies out of it by tipping the can:
https://racecarbook.com/new-shop/blown-nitro-racing-on-a-budget/
I'd suggest starting by reading Spud's notes here: http://onehotchilipepper.com/nitro/ and then buy Bob's book.
Cheers,
Harv
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Read spuds noted. Heck I could rewqrite the notes by memory.LOL
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Wideopen 231...
You will love it if you ever get out there. Index racing is perfect for injected nitro. We changed our Jr/fuel combo over to run NE1 back in the late '90s. went from 15:1 to 10.5:1 with flat top pistons, re-calibrated the fuel system with 7 gal pump & 30A nozzles, changed to aluminum rods and put a 3.70 gear in the car.
Back then the index was 7.50 and we found we could dial into the index by changing the percentage a little depending on conditions. In the good air at Bakersfield, 30 to 35% usually did the job. This is with a pretty light 1450# car with driver and 406 cu. in. sb Chevy. It left hard and would run 185 or so on the big end.
Good simple combination. We won the March Meet in 1999 and a bunch more stuff in the next few years.
I would recommend this type of combo as it is low maintenance with good results. Don't over think it and
take good care of your fuel system between races. Just my 2 cents.
Mike
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AF150
Question on why lower compression with the nitro? We run 15:1 in the A/Fuel car I work with. Yes it is Hemi and stronger bottomend and bigger combustion chamber. We also run 40 gpm and dual 44 amp mags. While I don't have 44 amp mags or a 40 gpm pump I also do not plan to run 95%, I do have 2 msd mag 12's and two 20 gpm pumps and already have 3.90 gear with 1.68 low and?or hi/low trans valvebody and could leave in low to lad engine, the converter would be 600* probably(lol). More of joking with slight chANCE ON THAT LAST COMBO OF PARTS.
was lower compression for less abuse to bottom end,bigger tunning window or just with sbc they are not crazy about bunch of compression and bigger loads? Just wondering.
ANy idea on combo of Nostalgia A/Fuel cars.Gears compression and know need clutch and can. Bad part I sold both in past and that is why I hate to sell stuff.
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Finally found a topic to get some activity on site. Nothing like nitro to get things going fast.LMAO
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Running A/F is a big step from 7.0 pro. More than a second if you want to outrun Bates and those guys.
Just make enough power to win rounds and not break stuff. If you are good at the tree, that approach will win some index races for you.
If you want to run a heads-up class and set records...well you better get your wallet out because we are talking apples and watermelons here.
I think we used our budget wisely, had some success, and had a xxxx of a lot of fun.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Mike
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Oh I know the cost of headsup.Ran TA/FC for 4 years chasing points and cheapest was 125k and that was 1992 and 94 missed the championship by less tahn two rounds and came down to final race. The A/fuel car i work on is running 2500 to 3000 per pass right now.
Would like to play in nostalgia A/fuel. As with all spped cost is only optical . LOL 7.0 is a lot closer to can almost afford. Only real cost would be meeting rules for cert.s. everything else is sitting here.
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AF150 I would like to hear more about your 406 we ran a 406 on alky ended cracking the stock block in the rear cam journal oil passage
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Jeff...
We used a well seasoned 400 block out of a taxi. Nothing special, .030 over, 4 bolt caps, Oliver rods on a light weight Crower crank, 15:1 JE pistons with nice iron heads that flowed 300 cfm. 2 & 5/16 Hilborn injectors with a 5 gpm pump on alcohol. Nice combination ... ran low 7.70s at 175mph in a FED that weighed 1450 on the line. Actually won Jr./fuel at the first CHRR 30 years ago. Switched to 30-40% nitro
in '98 and won NE-1 at the '99 March Meet. Ran this combo another 5 years and sold the car to guys in California. They ran it injected for a while, finally put a blower on it and managed to break it. Must have been a real good casting is all I can tell you.
Mike
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Thank you for the reply, I'm always curious about different set-ups
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If I was running 400 mblock with alky I would fill the block and forget about it. With alky there is no need for water in block and if wanted to run water thru heads short iff it just enough to allow ater flow. I have never run WATER IN ALKY MOTOR. JMO
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That's what we did, block filled, water in heads and splayed main caps
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That is what we did also.
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I know in my injected 408 Chrysler Wedge, 10% gave me a .10 in the 1/4 mi. and 18% gave me 2 .10's, 10% was no change to anything, timing, fuel jetting or converter. That 18% wanted a tad more fuel and it was pushing the converter pretty hard. 14.2:1 compression Ross pistons, GRP rods, steel 383 crank, indexed and cut down for SBC big end, Indy 440-1C heads, Indy stack injection that had been heavily modified (from Indy, it would either idle or run flat out, wouldn't do both) MSD 7AL-3 box with the MSD 2 amp coil.