FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: matt b on March 18, 2019, 07:44:46 AM
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Hi all - been off the board a bit with some work changes.
Putting the MW FED back together and am replacing the interior floorpan. Current unit runs from rear motor plate under the seat to the rear rails. It is a rip-roaring PITA to get in and out.
This may be a dumb question: Can I remake this in two -three pieces? Any rule or safety conflict to doing so? Current pan overlaps the outside rails and is relieved for the vertical chassis tubes and has a mild bend where the main tubes turn up towards the rear of cage.
Assuming I can do so safely I have a couple options in mind.
1. Main center pan with small 'wings' dzused on each side that are relieved for the vertical members / pedal mounts, etc.
2. Front section pan from seat brace to motor plate with rear section under seat (at bend) dzused in place.
Thanks in advance - appreciate any thoughts.
Matt B
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Matt, a couple of questions;
Does your car have a belly pan (below the frame rails, from mid plate to the rear end) ?
Do your feet rest on the interior pan or do they rest on the gas pedal (heel rest) or cross members?
The rules only require a floor pan if your feet rest on the belly pan so if there is something else under them the floor is redundant.
Roo
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Considering that your legs go over the rear end and that you cannot be pulled out the bottom, No spec or ruling exist except that there be something/anything there
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The ruling reads "if driver's body is in contact with belly pan, crossmember and subfloor mandatory. Also "Driver's legs must be retained inside frame by subflooring or other retaining device that is independent of car's body" (which really is saying the same as the first line).
The above is from the Nostalgia Dragster section of the 2016 rule book, the latest that I have to hand.
Roo
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Again that's a description taken from rear motor rules and inserted into the sportsman classes
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Exactly, but it is what is in the book and that is all that the tech guys have for reference.
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but nothing into reference to F/C or Altereds for which the feet are pretty much on the floor pan
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2019 NHRA Rulebook and 2019 HRHS Rulebook General Regulations
7:5 FLOOR
All cars without floors must be equipped with floor pans made of steel or aluminum that must extend the full length and width of the driver compartment to the rear of the driver’s seat. Cars equipped with floors or belly pans made of fiberglass or other breakable material must have metal subfloors. In all cars with OEM fiberglass floors, a crossmember (minimum 2 inches x 2 inches, .083-inch wall thickness square tubing) must be installed between framerails for proper driver’s seat, seat belt, shoulder harness, and crotch strap installation. Belly pans and subfloors enclosing engine or driver compartment must contain suitable drain holes so that liquids and foreign matter cannot collect, thus creating a fire hazard. Minimum .032-inch aluminum or .024-inch steel. In certain instances, an NHRA-accepted panel made of composite material may be substituted for steel or aluminum. Contact the NHRA Technical Services Department for list of accepted composite panels. Use of magnesium prohibited.
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One additional consideration:
Last fall at the NHRA Div. III E.T. Bracket Finals I got bounced from tech. I had a full belly pan but the PG trans was exposed in the driver's compartment, requiring a metal "tunnel" over the drivetrain. Truth be told, I had the necessary trans cover but I left it off to give me a little more room in the car.
I'm not sure if FEDs have to also have a trans cover ( or a Fuel car driver's suit) but I'd check to be sure.
A team member brought me the necessary cover and I got to race.
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One additional consideration:
Last fall at the NHRA Div. III E.T. Bracket Finals I got bounced from tech. I had a full belly pan but the PG trans was exposed in the driver's compartment, requiring a metal "tunnel" over the drivetrain. Truth be told, I had the necessary trans cover but I left it off to give me a little more room in the car.
I'm not sure if FEDs have to also have a trans cover ( or a Fuel car driver's suit) but I'd check to be sure.
A team member brought me the necessary cover and I got to race.
-20 suit and your fine without trans cover
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2019 NHRA Rulebook and 2019 HRHS Rulebook General Regulations
7:5 FLOOR
All cars without floors must be equipped with floor pans made of steel or aluminum that must extend the full length and width of the driver compartment to the rear of the driver’s seat. Cars equipped with floors or belly pans made of fiberglass or other breakable material must have metal subfloors. In all cars with OEM fiberglass floors, a crossmember (minimum 2 inches x 2 inches, .083-inch wall thickness square tubing) must be installed between framerails for proper driver’s seat, seat belt, shoulder harness, and crotch strap installation. Belly pans and subfloors enclosing engine or driver compartment must contain suitable drain holes so that liquids and foreign matter cannot collect, thus creating a fire hazard. Minimum .032-inch aluminum or .024-inch steel. In certain instances, an NHRA-accepted panel made of composite material may be substituted for steel or aluminum. Contact the NHRA Technical Services Department for list of accepted composite panels. Use of magnesium prohibited.
That whole section is related to "door" cars. The NHRA can't write an understandable and enforceable rule book to save their lives and there are numerous examples of this sort of wording throughout the book. The recently discussed steering column displacement collar is another that comes to mind. Working in conjunction with Carl Olson and Jim Skelly, I managed to get quite a bit of this sort of thing straightened out quite a few years ago but they are both gone from the NHRA and the clueless have taken over. I will try to contact Glenn Gray today and see it there is any chance of fixing these anomalies.
Roo
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Well this certainly clears up rather my full belly pan is legal or not.LOL Ok on serious side. I have full belly pan from motor plate to under seat,I have two diagonals that feet can rest on (although barley) .Legal or not? I can fabricate a inner floor if a have to do thing and just use when at event that it would be issue., I would rather have the belly pan since easier to remove to allow maintenance on trans ,6 dzus and you're there. Also would a aluminum rest covering diagonals be just as good and if required legal?
Just seeing what I may have to have and if chance I can have in trailer if becomes a issue and how yea once get the trailer thing covered. Not LOL there.
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does a belly pan help any other than air coming into the compartment ?
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does a belly pan help any other than air coming into the compartment ?
Well, there's that.
Plus in general a belly pan helps the aerodynamics on the underside of the chassis. Many new cars use them (I have to remove the one on my wife's car just to change the oil - GRRR).
Plus I can't count how many times I've dropped a glove in the driver's compartment while driving up to the staging lanes, and found it on the floor.
Likewise, losing my e.t. slip driving back from the e.t. shack.
Plus, plus, I have a piece of Pig Mat retained under the trans to act as a diaper for minor trans seepage drips.
Plus, plus, plus, occasionally a vital piece of hardware vibrates loose, like a terminal screw or nut.
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does a belly pan help any other than air coming into the compartment ?
It helps keep the flames (and oil and loose parts) out if things get ugly. ;)
Roo
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Fire boots are the only extra requirement with an exposed transmission in the drivers compartment but the driveshaft still needs a cover. Most of the F/C's I work on/build run a belly pan whether a 1-piece that includes the sides or the sides separate and a small dia tube support to step on while climbing in so you don't step on the pan, never a problem with tech
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If you are running slower than 7.49 (with the transmission in the cockpit) you need to add the 3.2A/15 suit (up from 3.2A/5) but the glove and boot spec for unblown cars is the same (3.3/5). The 3.3/15 gloves and boots are only required on supercharged/turbocharged cars or closed bodied cars burning methanol (regardless of the transmission in cockpit criteria)
Roo
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does a belly pan help any other than air coming into the compartment ?
Number one reason for it,^^^^
air under car is secondary,but never hurts.
It helps keep the flames (and oil and loose parts) out if things get ugly. ;)
Roo
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Thanks all!
Rooman - brake foot on the floorpan and throttle pedal has a shelf for my heel. Car does not have a full belly pan.
lol at dropping gloves - it gets awful dark in there too and I can't reach much when strapped in. Makes for some awkward moments with no pit crew!
Think I will just use a one piece floorpan but just bring it flush to the vertical members - be much easier to get it in place and easier to fabricate too.
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Why not put a proper belly pan on it (from the bottom and for the reasons stated above) and then just enough floor on the top side to rest your feet on?
Roo
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Roo - agree and absolutely would do if I planned to campaign this car - chassis is already prepped / painted (2 times) and going together. Hate to any more time / rework than I have too since plans are to let it go.
Too many projects - door car, this one and my Buddy Warren full bodied FED - and not enough hours in the week.
Dzus tabs already in place on upper side of frame rails / crossmembers, etc. Not notching for the verticals will make it a simple shear, brake and punch job. Give me more time to file rings....&^%$#.
Thanks again!
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lol at dropping gloves - it gets awful dark in there too and I can't reach much when strapped in. Makes for some awkward moments with no pit crew!
I too race mostly alone without a crew. In addition to having a floor I'll never build another car without an array of tiny LED lights in the cockpit for night racing, plus a couple of LED headlights, and a HORN. All those things probably weigh less than a pound as I'm using a small motorcycle horn, a single DPDT micro switch (up for interior lighting; momentary down for horn). They sure make racing a lot less stressful.
On my Willys coupe I also have lightweight power windows. Really help to keep the interior temps down on a warm day, plus it makes it easy to stop and get my e.t. slip. Nope, won't ever build a door car without power windows.
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On my FED I have a diaper under the motor and belly pan under rear of car that goes to back of transmission but it does not cover the pan. I am thinking of making a small pan to catch tranny fluid if anything ever happens.