FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum

Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: swilling on March 08, 2017, 11:26:37 AM

Title: Where to Start
Post by: swilling on March 08, 2017, 11:26:37 AM
Hey Guys - i did some searching and couldnt really find much specific to my question.

Looking at getting into building a fed.  Im a hot rodder who's built and restorted a couple Muscle cars, Pontiacs mostly and a Mopar project about to get underway.  Build my own engines and trannys, do all my own welding and fabrication and just starting to dabble in machine work.

My first goal would be to build my own from a chassis kit, and run an N/A budget iron headed Pontiac stroker. I have all the engine parts laying around no sweat.

I'm not looking to go so fast i could time travel just yet.  Just want to get into the hobby and learn and understand, then go from there, and most importantly have fun building and tuning the car. Also looking forward to attempting to build the Sheet metal skins from scratch as i love that kind of stuff.

Where do i go from here, i see a few chassis kits around, while i undesrstand the regulations have changed and so have what is now a certifiable chassis but who makes the most period correct appearing  chassis?

forgive me fro the newb questions, but hoping to start buying end of htis year and building through next summer.   Just want to learn and have fun building something cool. 

Cheers
Sam
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: Supercat on March 08, 2017, 11:53:02 AM
Sam welcome.
I would look for a chassis that will get you going. Find the shape you want and buy it. Take it to see what et it is safe for and what changes need to be made to upgrade et.
I bought a mid 60s 148" Fed with a magnesium body knowing it was not anything more than a history piece.
My wife and I will be using it this winter as a pattern chassis.
We will incorporate the new SFI changes and use chromoly pipe to make a period correct car that is safe.

You should be able to find a decent chassis to build from.
Trust me the upgrades alone will make you feel like you built the car ;D.
What size Pontiac are you going with.
Here is our Buick 455 FED that my wife and I put together.
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dreracecar on March 08, 2017, 05:17:33 PM
There is so much that goes into building a dragster chassis correctly that the wise move is to have one built by someone that is tooled up for it already and then you can do the rest if you like.
 To a newby even with thinwall CM welding skills, not welding in proper temp, fitment, sequence will become a disaster. More time is spent on fixtures, lineup bars, mockup engines, trans, rear end housing, getting to the starting point of laying the first piece of tubing in place, then it does to build the frame.
 Investment in a SFI 2.4 spec chassis book ($35) is where you should start. building to any other spec is a waste unless you plan to run Fuel. The difference between 2.4 and the 2.6 (7.50 and slower) is less that $100 worth of tubing and in my opinion, easier to build.
 Find a local builder, it requires a couple visits by you to size it right for you body type.
 Most builders have their own idea on what traditional is and will push their ideas on you because thats what they are tooled up for, but there are some of us that understand what you are looking for and will make every attempt to fulfil you desire.
 Other than that a good choice is to find something already out there and modify to suit. With that, you can develop a sense of likes and dislikes to put forward into a new build. If going that way, do not consider a used car unless there is a NHRA/SFI sticker on it, can be out of date, but it must be stickered
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: nostalgic371 on March 08, 2017, 08:30:46 PM
I really agree with the responses above, you will be way ahead on money and time if you can find a tagged car that can modified just a bit to suit your needs. If not, do give a lot of consideration to having one built by a reputable shop, you will still have a lot of satisfaction finishing one you receive as a roller, I also feel they re-sell better if you later decide some day to move on.
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: masracingtd1167 on March 09, 2017, 03:06:25 PM
I am Sure any one of the chassis guys on here will build you a car in any stage that you want and then you could finish it the way that you want to !
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: swilling on March 10, 2017, 11:03:13 AM
Supercat -

Thank you! , i see what you're saying.   the little i could find seemed like everyone avoided original chassis at all costs.  Good to know you are able to keep it in the game with some upgrades!

would be a 4.25 stroke cast crank that would put me at 461. i have a few spare poncho blocks tucked away. I could run this crank in a 400 with the smaller mains than a 455 and should be more than enough for me to get a feel and understanding of what im doing. I even have a stock stroke 400 i could probably throw at it first time around. I like the thought of creeping up in CI and compression, and just seeing how things would improve. I'll probably say it again here im sure but i just love to geek out on numbers and theorizing.

Wow so cool to see a Buick! i already love the FED guys just because theres always a nice collective of the more odball engines, and of course lots of BOP stuff. Very cool!

Thanks!

Dreracecar -
Thanks! im starting to feel confident with my Tig skills that i can get a nice fitment and weld on some CM tubing But i do understand the merits of a Jig - i guess my mind was thinking that most of the old timers built theirs on a garage floor and were running a lot faster than id probably ever go.  Forgive my ignorance, i guess the whole building from a kit mindset gave me the assumption i would learn a real lot along the way and have an even better understanding of measurements and geometry and why things work and why things dont.

Thank you! im ordering the book today! interesting between 2.4 and 2.6 being so simple - but man i think id need a change of pants if i ever ran 7.50s  ;D

Good tip on the sticker. Thank you!

Nostalgic371 -
The time thing is certainly not a problem, i spent 6 months (weekends only due to my job) scratch building headers for my GTO, i spent more money and time of course than buying a 450 dollar set that would do fine. But for me, the fun comes from time spent in the garage, listening to music hanging with my dog and just turning a wrench or cutting some tubing. for me the journey of the build is certainly more rewarding than the finished product.  I'm really thinking talking to a shop is a great idea at this point. Thank you!

Masracingtd1167 -
Thanks, another good point, as obviously all you guys here "Get" what im trying to do.


So - thank you all again - a huge help already.  Its hard to find info or help about this stuff. I'm 35 years old, and absolutely zero of my friends are interested in cars or engine building, and its really hard to find like minded people who i could bounce ideas and learn from.

I did stumble across these guys and liked the idea that everything is already tacked on a Jig - would this be an adviseable route? http://www.slingshotdragsters.com/kits.html

That said, would anyone know of a Chassis builder in Nor Cal? i like the idea of getting something maybe quite bare but still to my size (i'm 6'1 190).  I am located in Sonoma county. Sears Point is my local track.  I think finding someone close by i could chat with, who also "gets it" would be great.  Again, for me personally, its gotta be cool. I know i could already buy one of the many local rear engine dragsters complete ready to race off Craigslist and save time and money. But thats not for me, even if i never ran as fast as anything i could buy. Its just gotta cool, a little more period correct and just fun to create. These things were absolute pieces of Art as far as im concerned.

Lastly i know its probably a much larger question than can be answered in a few sentances. But as far as wheelbase. Where do i start, where do i go.  Obviously, the shorter the gnarlier the thing must be when running quick. But again i know nothing about this stuff, is there a standard length that most of you guys run, or does it depend on power and what you're trying to achieve, wheres a good starting point for someone who knows nothing about this, and never driven one?  Apologies again this is probably a horrible question to  expect a simple answer for. But im just trying to start somewhere.

Thank you all again.
Cheers
Sam!

Thank you all again, i can't say how excited i am just to hear from you guys. Appreciate it all
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: Supercat on March 10, 2017, 11:37:37 AM
Sam I would go around 180" to 200" as for stability.
I have driven 170mph 94" wheel base cars and had my hands full.
The first Fed I drove was mine at 200" and 145mph loved it next Fed was a top fuel 200"-225" that Roo built for Dan Horan Sr. .
2nd 1/8th mile pass in licensing was a 198mph run.
I had found my calling for what I wanted......
Bruce could help you out as there are also many like him that live on the west coast.
I would give him or Roo a call to add to your education.
As they say where I live. "They are good people".
Good luck.
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dreracecar on March 10, 2017, 12:23:51 PM
2.4 and 2.6 cost the same to SFI tag every 3 years

 My car runs 7.0Pro, its 193" wheelbase because if I wanted it longer I would have to buy 4 lengths of 1 1/4 for the front rails instead of 2 that I cut in half and where they came together--- that determind my wheelbase. ANY wheelbase car will handle great if it is built right, if it does not, then its junk.
 The general rule is the shorter the wheelbase, the wider the front axle. Short WB and a narrow front axle is when handling becomes an issue, I also build 100" nostalgia fuel altereds, that handle and go straight, but the front axle is wide.
 Back in the day cars were built on the floor with nothing but chaulk lines and  2 x 4's but things have changed since then. One could easily build a frame in a week because there was not that much tubing involved, With having to build with specs and all the tubing now required, it takes a week just to weld it. besides Im too old to be crawling on the floor.
Kit cars are great for the companys that provide them. They sell them to those people trying to save money by not having a shop do it, all is great and the entusiatm is high till they realize the amount of work it takes and the shortfalls of the kit. Not by any means am I putting you in this catogory, I dont know you or your qualifcations, Im going by what shows up at the swapmeet or at my front door asking for help. Kits provide the exact amount tubing for the build, some people need double the tubing to cover mistakes. Even with doing this for over 20+ years, I have a box of mistakes under the bench that I use for shorter parts
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dreracecar on March 10, 2017, 12:27:15 PM
Lots of discussion on that "slingshotdragster" chassis on this board--- most of it not very good
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on March 10, 2017, 01:58:11 PM
Sam, I just got called from one of my JrFuel customers that wants to sell everything he has, including a chassis that looks like it would fit you, with the motor location of 42" from the rear axle to the back of the motor, that he took anything bolted on to build a new chassis with the motor out 52" . So what's missing is the seat, rear-end housing, the bolt on "A" arms, spindles, steering box, and front nose body, wheels altho he has 3 sets of rear wheels and 2 sets of wire spoke wheels. I'm sure he'll sell it inexpensive, the good news for you is he is in NAPA Calif, with-in eye shot of the Sonoma Dragstrip.
So most of your welding would be done, yes the chassis cert has expiered, but can be certed, it has run in the 6's.
Call me if you are interested,
Jon 805-444-4489, cell 
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: swilling on March 10, 2017, 07:23:15 PM
Sam I would go around 180" to 200" as for stability.
I have driven 170mph 94" wheel base cars and had my hands full.

170 on a 94" !!! wow, that sounds like an absolute blast! surprised you could even fit your balls in that car, let alone the rest of you  ;D

thanks for the info, the 180-200 range is good to know, i also seem to like the look of the shorter cars just by preference.

2.4 and 2.6 cost the same to SFI tag every 3 years

 My car runs 7.0Pro, its 193" wheelbase because if I wanted it longer I would have to buy 4 lengths of 1 1/4 for the front rails instead of 2 that I cut in half and where they came together--- that determind my wheelbase. ANY wheelbase car will handle great if it is built right, if it does not, then its junk.
 The general rule is the shorter the wheelbase, the wider the front axle. Short WB and a narrow front axle is when handling becomes an issue, I also build 100" nostalgia fuel altereds, that handle and go straight, but the front axle is wide.
 Back in the day cars were built on the floor with nothing but chaulk lines and  2 x 4's but things have changed since then. One could easily build a frame in a week because there was not that much tubing involved, With having to build with specs and all the tubing now required, it takes a week just to weld it. besides Im too old to be crawling on the floor.
Kit cars are great for the companys that provide them. They sell them to those people trying to save money by not having a shop do it, all is great and the entusiatm is high till they realize the amount of work it takes and the shortfalls of the kit. Not by any means am I putting you in this catogory, I dont know you or your qualifcations, Im going by what shows up at the swapmeet or at my front door asking for help. Kits provide the exact amount tubing for the build, some people need double the tubing to cover mistakes. Even with doing this for over 20+ years, I have a box of mistakes under the bench that I use for shorter parts

absolutely - appreciate the explination of how you came to that length, great to know that theres still some basic hot rodding theory of "its what i had" applied. Just from what you mentioned i already am noticing in pictures of Altereds and shorter wheel base vs wider front axle. learning so much already. Appreciate it.   Also understand what you're saying with all the unfinished and problematic builds.  Im well aware of how easy mistakes are made, and also how much ive learned from them. I reaplced a full quarter twice, on my GTO and then tought myself to do the lead work, just because i like to punish myself. Again the Journey for me is really really where my heart is at. Of course until i drive one of these things, then i'll probably want to do nothing but actually race.  Is there any kind of formula to length vs front axle width? or just a case of if its short, make it wide!  ?

Lots of discussion on that "slingshotdragster" chassis on this board--- most of it not very good
Thanks i did a few searches i found one topic that i read through - but definitly will do more reading and searching. Cheers

Call me if you are interested,
Jon 805-444-4489, cell 

An absolute pleasure talking with you Jon - Thank you!!

So my next question again just to get my head around things - and like anything no simple answer im sure. but im just eating up all the knowledge i can while you guys are willing to post stuff.

2 Questions -
Whats up with Engine Rake -  like some of the old fuelers i see had the engine at a serious rake - it looks cool as %#$ my only thoughts on it are trying to keep a lower center of gravity while having a really tall tire, forces the rear axle higher and instead of raising the engine on a straight plain, the rear has been tilted up to still run straight to the center section on the differential.   Most of thre newer feds i see built do not have any kind of rake to the engine - why did it go away?

Trans/Driveline - i see some of the older fuel cars look like they just ran a clutch/bellhousing then straight to the differential - was that it? and then it was just all gear ratio/rpm at the end of the day? Is that why a lot of the older Cars look like the engine is MUCH closer to the rear axle? The newer stuff seems like the engine sits much further down the car.

But i see a lot of newer builds and people using powerglides.  Did people used to run these cars just direct or am i seeing things wrong, was a transmission always used? Are all you guys now running transmissions? 

please answer as much or as little as anyone cars to, nobody likes a newbie but i just want to learn and understand, again there is nobody i know who touches this stuff.

Thank you all,
Cheers
Sam
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: noslin on March 10, 2017, 07:49:55 PM

please answer as much or as little as anyone cars to, nobody likes a newbie but i just want to learn and understand, again there is nobody i know who touches this stuff.

Thank you all,
Cheers
Sam

some dont like newbies as they ask a lot of questions but that is what the forum is for right!!!  questions make the forum grow, the community expand, and helps guys like me out who are in the same boat. 

great questions your asking.  i dont know the history either but it sure is interesting to learn about it.   i can not believe what some guys drove back in the day.   they have balls of steel haha.

ty
dean
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dreracecar on March 10, 2017, 09:01:09 PM
There is no science in rake. It is the relation of how far the motor is out in front of the rear end and the clearance of the front of the oil pan to the ground. The further back along the driveshaft center line the more angle the engine achieves,the further out the more of the angle is reduced.
A powerglide is the most common installed drivline in drag cars today,but never was considered in the early days
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on March 10, 2017, 09:40:45 PM
Sam, I'm not a chassis builder, but I have been racing dragsters since 1962. Ya, I raced  with a flag man, before the trees. My 1'st JrFueler was a short wheel base all iron 301ci SBC high gear car where I just rev it up pop the clutch and smoke the tires [ to keep the RPM up] to about 1/2 track, on nitro. We ran 8.0's and 191mph in 1964.  It was the best of times racing every weekend at about 4 differnt tracks around Wisc.and Rockford Ill.
The reason for the extreme engine rakes, and motor placement so far back was all this was before VHT, Slipper clutches, sticky tires that helped make the slippers work.
Now the cars run allot quicker with VHT, better tires, and they adjust the chutches and timers to keep the engine in the RPM they want for max performance.
I know it doesn't make total sense to have the motor so far back [ = more traction] and then also tilt the motor down [ = less traction] but it's all about the combination.
It looks like the modern NTF cars have the motor out like 46 to 50", again to help keep the RPM in the range the motors is happy. Keep in mind the more we modify the motors, ie bigger flowing heads, big cams that make more power at higher RPM's the narrower the peak HP is happy.
 A number of JRFuelers are running 50-54" out, mostly because they are making less torque but more HP, so they build them that way to keep the motor from pulling down out of the best RPM range.
That's why I think the chassis we talked about I think will work good for you, because with you big Pontiac, you will be making allot more torque, than my 48" out SBC on alky making 870HP that we run 7.0's at 188-9 MPH, with a powerglide, and a converter that stalls 8600 rpm.  Most jrfuelers run the 31x12x15 Goodyear, only a couple run a 33x12x15, but I think it's because the motors are out too far and they don't have enough rear static weight so they need a bit more bite, but the down side to the 8lbs heavier per tire, takes more power to over come the rotating weight.
It's all about the combination that will work with your parts.
Jon 
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: noslin on March 11, 2017, 07:31:11 AM
Sam, I'm not a chassis builder, but I have been racing dragsters since 1962. Ya, I raced  with a flag man, before the trees. My 1'st JrFueler was a short wheel base all iron 301ci SBC high gear car where I just rev it up pop the clutch and smoke the tires [ to keep the RPM up] to about 1/2 track, on nitro. We ran 8.0's and 191mph in 1964.  It was the best of times racing every weekend at about 4 differnt tracks around Wisc.and Rockford Ill.


Jon,
back in this era the trans was manual i take it?  or was there no clutch at all.  you were pushed and then popped in gear like shifting car without clutch (daily driver)?

ty
dean
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dreracecar on March 11, 2017, 08:18:22 AM
There was no trans and there was a clutch and a driveshaft direct to the rear end. The only traction was what the tires had in the rubber and the driver working the clutch to get the car moving forward and down the track in a 1100#car

   One thing that has to be considered is that Jons car runs on a open ended ET and my car runs a closed ended Index. Our Ets are the same 7 seconds, but his are with a limited  Alc injected engine and mine are on a un-restricted blown Alc engine
  Jon and his class of JR Fuel are constantly changing parts and moving things around to achieve the best results possable for that class
  Since all I have to do is tune my (1460# w/driver) car to run a set number. Placement of componants are not as critical to performance, and can configure to the look I want. One can get most anything to work. My engine placement is at 39" because that is the length of a full PG without having to buy extra driveline parts and with a 33" tire, I am able to get it to work for me for the class I run.
 At the recent March Meet race, 28 cars with varying degree of engineering and style running the 7.0Pro index class, had the final qualifying order with the top 16 ranging from a 7.001 to a 7.09X
 So now we look at the car that Jons friend has up for offer, Its a quality piece no doubt and can be considered. Disreguarding it because the motor is too far forward or too far back to some "EXPERTS" is rediculess. If the car has the LOOK that you desire and you fit (suit & helmet) within your price range is all you really need
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on March 11, 2017, 09:59:39 AM
A high gear car means no trans, we just put a 2x4 between the rearend and clutch pedal to move the car around with-out the engine running. And yes during that time all dragsters were push started, I miss that part of the "Show" with the push starts coming from the finish line and cross over at the start line. If burn-outs were allowed past the start line we were pushed back by the crew members. THe chassis had to changed to fit reversers between the clutch cans and rear-ends.
 AH the "Good Old Days"
The "show" started to go away when they came up with roller starters, ya it moved the show along faster but at the expense of the cross-over "show".
Jon
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: gordon on March 11, 2017, 10:43:29 AM
Northern CA chassis builder Davey Uyehara has a shop in Yuba city. He has been building and racing Front Eng Dragsters since the sixties. My car was built by him.  200" with blown alky BBC tor the 7.0pro class. He can build new style or old.
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: nostalgic371 on March 11, 2017, 11:27:53 AM
There is no science in rake. It is the relation of how far the motor is out in front of the rear end and the clearance of the front of the oil pan to the ground. The further back along the driveshaft center line the more angle the engine achieves,the further out the more of the angle is reduced.
A powerglide is the most common installed drivline in drag cars today,but never was considered in the early days
Another reason for the reduced engine rake is the huge popularity now of the 9 inch ford rear end, which has the pinion intersect the ring gear at a lower point than the 8 3/4 Chrysler rears that used to be more common back in the day, and add to that, a large full length oil pan can be run as well.
But I still love the old look, myself.
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: masracingtd1167 on March 11, 2017, 11:35:55 AM
Hey Jon I remember the old push starts too !
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on March 11, 2017, 12:02:12 PM
Ahhh, where is the push plate on the push car ?  If the dragster had a rouned push bar I would think it would get caught on the bumber or at least screw-up the lic plate. Maybe a roller start at the far end just being followed by the tow car ?

Jon
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: masracingtd1167 on March 11, 2017, 12:47:25 PM
We used this type of push bar . It worked pretty good !
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dreracecar on March 11, 2017, 01:24:37 PM
There is no science in rake. It is the relation of how far the motor is out in front of the rear end and the clearance of the front of the oil pan to the ground. The further back along the driveshaft center line the more angle the engine achieves,the further out the more of the angle is reduced.
A powerglide is the most common installed drivline in drag cars today,but never was considered in the early days
Another reason for the reduced engine rake is the huge popularity now of the 9 inch ford rear end, which has the pinion intersect the ring gear at a lower point than the 8 3/4 Chrysler rears that used to be more common back in the day, and add to that, a large full length oil pan can be run as well.
But I still love the old look, myself.

 its only .500 lower
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dusterdave173 on March 11, 2017, 05:28:47 PM
I started with a chassis kit from Worm / cenpen / or slingshot dragsters--I did this because they sold many a "dream" and they were lots out there--I got a divorce deal on a bare chassis kit that was tacked and in two pieces--Looking back --whew! It is a miracle that I got it finished --I never ever imagined how much was involved--I had built about a dozen door cars and could whip one out in three weeks--but this car took about a year and half as I just spent what I could as I went along--the $500 chunks and the $40 items and the small items were deceptive and added up big time but--I enjoyed the scavenger hunt at the swaps and online and trading etc
The car has been finished--I have a season and half on it--I drive the $%^* out of it--I am now confident in the car--feel like I am under control and know how to make better decisions every week--I have learned a LOT--My biggest gripe has been when I want to snag the engine or trans out--it was poorly designed for service--which I admit happens seldom and is no big deal but with some little extra here and there it could have been much better done in that dept
My car is a 200 inch--I LIKE it  It fits inside a 24 ft trailer--it answers the helm better than any car I have ever had
I kept slowing the steering until I could "saw" on the wheel ( as I seemed to be inclined to do) and not be making much input--a video camera at first is a must--it teaches you was it the car?, the track?, the groove?, the driver? etc  you learn quick--real quick
From the side view my car looks good--does the roll bar look nostalgic? NO Is it my dream dragster ? NO but...I have had more fun in that car than anything I have ever owned and that list is long
My drive these days is to make small changes like move shifter, get Camlock belts ( stupid not to run these) as they are so easy to use vs latch style, move belt anchors, all driver comfort things
First outing this year but days away--can't wait!
Guys in my level always start looking to a blower vs injection--me..I am planning small nitro % as the few times I have tried it have been crazy easy fun--many blower cars can't make it down the tracks we run in our area so I am staying injected--feel like I can get more "press" from running a little nitro than being blown at least in my area and..who does not want to try that some?
Find a car that fits and is comfortable --make it safe--leave engine alone and learn the car and learn to drive so you are not a hazard to fans and your fellow racers--
A new chassis or better yet a new roller is the only way to go--leave the old junk for shows  many say get a running car--but lots of them are said to be running cars race ready and are piles of junk built by rookies--a real running car is Ok f you have seen it run at least a few weeks in a row and one that IS race ready--those are out there but very few--most cars sold are so far from safe and ready it is a joke--and you wind up rebuilding them so NO savings at all
Saving $$ is silly to say around a race car endeavor--either you have the funds to do it or not--Face that reality first and foremost--you may be a better fan than racer--If you are a racer then nothing can stop you from achieving your goals--Period!
Good luck
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on March 13, 2017, 06:24:12 PM
A popular old quote:

In racing you can be fast, cheap and safe.

Pick two
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: Van on March 13, 2017, 09:35:44 PM
This is my car that my long time friend and driver, Keven, and I built. It is definitely fast, cheap and safe. We ran 7.11 @189 at the March meet in 7.0 Pro. We're running very detuned to keep it in the 7's.
Junkyard Dana 60 rear, 3.50 gear
Turbo 400 trans
Junkyard 460 Ford block, 1970

Van
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: swilling on March 14, 2017, 07:44:43 PM
oh man So much good info here! everything i hoped for an more from all you guys. Really appreciate it.

So just to spell it out - im looking to get into this to build something really really cool, even if that means buying a bare chassis thanks to the Advice on here, i'm not concerned about time or money. m'm well aware of the cost and effort. if i was affraid to spend money, i wouldnt be passionate about Pontiac engines lol.

i dont want to compete, i just want to run this thing at my local track, tune it, run some more, and crunch numbers on what i did and what helped, and what didn't. Just really get down to the nitty gritty stuff.

Its gotta look cool, and oldschool, as mentioned before i plan to just run an N/A Poncho mill to start and get a feel. 

Heres my next big question - Thank you to all above who chimed in on the Clutch vs Trans subject.  I definitely want to run a Clutch. I get really really excited thinking about running a shorter (180 inch or so) wheelbase with a clutch and some old pie crust slicks and pedaling the thing. Thats what excites me about the stuff you guys do, really fighting to handle a car is by far the most exciting thing to me.  Also appreciate the comment about having SAW in the steering. Great example thanks!

So - a couple of things, again thank you all for being so understanding, its really exciting and humbling to come in here and have all you guys freely commenting and helping out, i just cant get over how great of a feeling is, so heres where i'm at.

Running a clutch - obviously the limitations come in pretty quick with Engine RPM and power.
Say i build a 500hp Poncho engine, that falls over after 6k rpm.   A 4.10 rear @6k rpm puts me at 140mph - something like that would be more than acceptable for me to have fun and get a feel for everything.

But would 500hp/550 ftlbs (probably making around 400 ft lbs @ 3300) be enough to even get this thing out of the hole when not running a trans. Or was it only the big Nitro engines that could pull that hard off the line to make it worth while using a clutch.

I'd love to Pedal it - not too excited on a fancy slipper clutch but maybe i would enjoy trying to set that up.

You guys mention reversers - is that using the lenco reverse module like on the ST1200  and throwing it off the end of the bell housing, then calling it a day?

plenty more questions to come but i'm already learning a real lot.

Again not trying to compete or run against anyone else, just want to have a dragster that i can enjoy tinkering on, have a blast fighting it down the track, and learning a bunch of things along the way.

Thank you all Again LOVE The pictures!!

Cheers
Sam
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dreracecar on March 15, 2017, 09:21:17 AM
Remember--- this is not the "Run what you brung" 60's,  Unless your plans are to run the car in the ally behind your house, there are rules and specs that you must adhere to if you plan to put it on the track- even if you just want to test and tune.
 To ask people on this board about clutch set ups and odd  configuations with recapped tyres is kind of useless, but tons of advice about Chevy's and PG's using racing slicks
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: swilling on March 15, 2017, 11:09:55 AM
Remember--- this is not the "Run what you brung" 60's,  Unless your plans are to run the car in the ally behind your house, there are rules and specs that you must adhere to if you plan to put it on the track- even if you just want to test and tune.
 To ask people on this board about clutch set ups and odd  configuations with recapped tyres is kind of useless, but tons of advice about Chevy's and PG's using racing slicks

Totally valid point. But by the sounds of things here some of you guys used to run clutches/reverser combos. Id certainly like to know more about the setup. Its really hard info to research.

 I guess i mean im not wanting to compete against any other cars or the likes.  Even if by the sounds of things a Glide is now the way to go. 

Any thoughts on clutching a lower powered direct drive N/A engine like i mentioned above?
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: rooman on March 15, 2017, 12:45:15 PM
Sam,
       a few years back I drove HAMB member Kerry's blown 354 hemi fed at Mokan. He was running the "pie crust" slicks and it was like driving on ice. My run is on this video starting at about 6:30 and you can see how much I was steering it

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxtO9uhwH_U

  And this was on a track that had some traction compound applied.

Roo
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: dreracecar on March 15, 2017, 02:13:24 PM
1992 360 SBC on alc , direct drive and 2-disc clutch
concrete w/ vht could not get it to leave-- just bog
 9" wide tyre ,15# air and wiped the tire with a damp rag - helped, but not much
 Spent way too much time trying to figure it out , built a new car with a PG and never looked back
 It was done in the 60's because the track surface was just plain asphalt without any bite, Break the tires loose to get wheel speed and modulate the clutch to get it moving forward.
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: slingshot383 on March 16, 2017, 10:35:44 AM
Dave Tuttle is another California chassis builder you might want to talk to.  A clutch nowadays means you have a 2 or 3 speed Lenco with reverser to go with it. A pedal clutch is even more rare in a FED, usually what you will find is a Crowerglide.  Also, with a clutch comes a lot more maintenance and needed knowledge.
Title: Re: Where to Start
Post by: glofria on March 17, 2017, 06:32:41 PM
Bruce Dyda knows what he is talking about and really doesn't need me to validate him. He has built a chassis for our driver Andy last year and will put the cage on at some point in the future.

I like Tuttle's cars, but good luck running him down and getting a finished product in a reasonable amount of time.

But if you want to start something in the middle here is a good start: http://www.racingjunk.com/Nostalgia/182827788/No.html?sortby=distance-nearest&page=2&categoryId=150&offset=14&from=category