FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Technical => Matt Shaff's Engine Shop => Topic started by: ss4 on December 16, 2013, 11:31:23 AM
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I need to add a oil breather tank. is there a recommended size or sizing based on engine? currently running a sbc360 with stack Hilborn but will be working toward a blown sbc434. also what size feed/exit lines from the valve covers.
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NHRA calls out for 1 gal minimum with 1" "ID" tubing from the covers to the tank
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Can you guys recommend a type/brand for the 1" ID tubing?
Mine are made of clear plastic (Vinyl?) that gets very rigid after a while. It's a real pain to deal with it.
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Glad I asked thank you. :D
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Can you guys recommend a type/brand for the 1" ID tubing?
Mine are made of clear plastic (Vinyl?) that gets very rigid after a while. It's a real pain to deal with it.
Yes there is other things that one can use but tend to cost a lot more. Clear vinyl tube is cheap enough to change out every season for 10 years for what the other material cost plus clear gives you a visual indication of what is going on after the run.
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Yes:
I use the clear vinyl from home depot.
It is a pain but dreracecar is right on: Its cheap to change it and you can see whats happening.
Matt
Can you guys recommend a type/brand for the 1" ID tubing?
Mine are made of clear plastic (Vinyl?) that gets very rigid after a while. It's a real pain to deal with it.
Yes there is other things that one can use but tend to cost a lot more. Clear vinyl tube is cheap enough to change out every season for 10 years for what the other material cost plus clear gives you a visual indication of what is going on after the run.
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I also use Home Depot hose (the reinforced swimming pool hose)
(http://www.leverfamilysite.com/images/2010_Dragster/Progress_2011_01_29/Valve_covers_DSCN9021.JPG)
(http://www.leverfamilysite.com/images/2010_Dragster/Progress_2011_01_29/Fuel_Line_DSCN8957.JPG)
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Thank you guys! I guess I'm staying with the clear vinyl tubing then. I'll replace it, hoping a new one is less rigid than the my old ones.
Any recommendation on suppliers for oil tank?
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Make one or have one made since every car is different. I bought mine at a swap-meet for $10, It was a puke tank for an old funny car that was too small for current use
Unless you like the looks of it ,getting the reinforced hose has no advantages over the clear. Just be sure you find a supplier with the size you need and is at the beginning of the roll, if you get the end of the roll there is too much curl and the hose is flattened makes it quite difficult to work with.
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DRE, thank you for the info and picture. That's a nice looking digger.
My experience with vinyl tubing of smaller diameters is that the reinforced clear vinyl hose was actually more flexible than the standard clear vinyl hose. The reinforced one wasn't as transparent though.
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all I was implying was that dont get into a panic if you cant find the reinforced type hose.
I prefer the clear as it tends to be more invisable then the reinforced which distracs by looking white
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we use the black washer drain hose 8) about 6 bucks ;) makes both hoses
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First off sorry to OP about going off topic.
I have been comparing data sheets on this for awhile ( because I ponder stuff way to much ???) and was talking to a racer a few years ago at BG about this very thing. So thought I would share. One thing to consider though is the car NA or blown.
The PVC Hose that is used and mentioned has the following specs. Now I am sure there are different qualities and such but lets just say this.
PVC Tubing mentioned:
Chemical resistant but also meets FDA standards and CFR Title 21 parts 170-199. Non-toxic, crystal clear, ozone resistant. Service temperature +25°F to 150°F. Self extinguishing. Heavy wall is kink resistant. Burst pressure 4 times W.P. 72 Durometer.
Now compared to this at Mcmaster carr:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#5223k25/=pvn3ry
Ideal for water, hydraulic oil, oil, and chemicals, such as citric and acetic acids; also for air, smoke, dust, chips, and shavings
Flexible
Temperature Range: -20° to +300° F
Internal Abrasion Resistance: Excellent
Color: Blue or green
Made from PVC-coated foam, this hose withstands high temperatures. Commonly used as vacuum hose, it has a wire support and a smooth interior for unrestricted flow and easier cleaning. Hose also resists crushing and kinking. Can be used indoors and out.
Hose comes in your choice of blue or green. To Order: Please order hose in 5-ft. increments up to the full coil length of 50 ft. and specify color.
Antistatic fittings are gray vinyl with a steel support. Use them to connect hose to your equipment. They slide onto the hose and secure with set screws (included). They eliminate static buildup and ground the hose for antistatic flow.
Hose with antistatic fittings attached comes in your choice of hose color with gray fittings attached. To Order: Please specify hose color: blue or green.
Also we used this once in a project at work seemed to have nice specs...
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/48569248?src=pla&008=-99&007=Search&pcrid=15557577904&006=15557577904&005=21882504424&004=4409695744&002=2167139&mkwid=sJXegN7a0|dc&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_sJXegN7a0_PLA__15557577904_c_S&026=-99&025=c
Inside Diameter (Inch) 1-1/2
Outside Diameter (Inch) 2
Material ORS Synthetic Rubber Compound
Length Ft. (Feet) 300
Maximum PSI 1000.00
Fitting Size (Inch) 1-1/2
Minimum Temperature ( F) 0.000
Maximum Temperature ( F) 200.000
So just saying for your consideration.
Merry Christmas , best to all and hope you have a great year end with whatever you celebrate
thanks
Luke
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I want to locate the puke tank on the back of the car.
Running the oil/steam impregnated air in the upper frame rails to the back end of the car, does the chassis need regular draining or does the g-force completely take care of that?
I'd guess the frontend should be sealed off or should I use that also for added cc?
Heres a video from Jim Murphy's garage on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCRBjQ9IZCo
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Most all F/C type frames have drains located on the upper frame rail at the front of the chassie and is part of maintenence. Dragsters can have them either top or bottom rail and when they have them on the bottom builders put a plug inside the tube ahead of the vent and just raise the front of the car and let the oil drain out the back.Murphys system is for blown nitro so unless that is what you are building, it does not need to be that elaberate. In the 18 years I have been running my car I have never had to drain my breather tank.
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Thanks for clarifying D.
I want to use the top tube, so I guess I can just put the chassis drain way up front somewhere, and not worry about closing it off.
I have been covered in oil before from the breathers when blowing up, It is not so much trouble in the sand, but on the dragstrip I have to contain it better.
I will vent from the valve covers, the video just goes in depth on what goes on when a piston lets go, and the necessities of sufficient tube diameters.
Its a precaution more than anything, as I have a bad habit of blowing stuff up...
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Any reason not to run tubes off the front of the valve covers opposed to the top and I assume there is a shield/baffle tacked in as well.
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Decelleration, Yank the chute and everything goes foward and "G" forces will move the oil around any baffle. Middle and on top is a neutral area
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good point. where does one by the fancy fitting?
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RCD has a nice set, GoodVibrationsRacing sells them under part number C-7150
All you really need is a set of tubes welled to the cover in the right location and the right diameter to except the flexible tubes running to your tank.
It is really nice though to have quick disconnect so that the covers can be removed easily.
There are others and different set ups.
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okay thank you.
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I hope this question doesn`t sound foolish. If your running Donovan valve covers on a early Chrysler hemi and run burn down tubes in place of the front set of breathers, do you block off the rear set of breathers? I know the engine needs to breathe, is the puke tank alone enough?
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Yes, you would block off the rear, Another thing that is starting to become prevelent is to run a breather line from the valley cover. Since the pushrod holes are so small and blocked by the pushrods and oil, the motor has a hard time breathing. Taking it from the valley really helps.
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sorry for so many questions on a simple task.
From rules for a 8.0 dragster, how does the clear tubing have to be secured. are hose clamps acceptable? I am specifically looking at the tank side. plan was to use slip on with hose clamp and possibly the samething on the valve covers. I really would like it to come of the front face instead of top but I certainly get the concerns.
Also I am going to run water in the block (no pump) and was going to plumb a -8 line to the same oil tank and possibly put a 3ish psi check valve in line. thoughts?
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Hose clamps are fine, some class prefer that 2 to be used at each end.
3 psi is not enough try 17psi and plumb into headers, make sure to drill 1/8" drain holes in each tube at the lowest point.
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just be carefull when you weld something new or repairing the tubing it can fun ???
the valve cover can go flying ;)
but I been wrong wants I think 8)
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3 psi is not enough try 17psi and plumb into headers, make sure to drill 1/8" drain holes in each tube at the lowest point.
Are you saying to run the water to one of the zoo is tubes?
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Check valve in expantion tank, -4 stainless line into #1 header. Exhaust blows any water away from the rear tire
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I'm lost... got totally confused past the point where it's mentioned plumbing cooling (water) and engine breather to the same tank... please help!
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just trying to streamline a little and not have 2 tanks. If the both are waste then why not send to the same tank. I am not running a radiator so the amount of water ending up in the tank will be a mere spit.
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"Check valve in expantion tank, -4 stainless line into #1 header. Exhaust blows any water away from the rear tire"
interesting thought is that what this tank is doing? is it normally full and then just burps to the exhaust or does it have to fill from the motor first? is that also a temp gauge at the bottom?
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I run a SBC with alu heads and for the past 12 years I have circulated water thru the heads with a pump (fuel pump extention) and have never had to surface the heads. On first fire up with the tank cap off if chec the water level after I depress the spit valves at the back of the heads to make sure water has completely filled them. The tank is only filled 2/3rds to allow for expantion.
Water expands when heated and steam pressure rises past the point of 3# and the check will pop off. Early racers using the HEMI would tap into the water fill bosses to direct water expantion into the headers. water pressure was not too much a problem since the cars fired-went to the line-raced. With the added burnout,more heat developed quicker,so a check was added and plumbing into the headers was a easy deal since cars were still using standard breathers.
Temp gauge on the bottom to monitor warm-up heat and fuel system rich/lean (cyl head heat)
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Okay I thought I owed you guys a thank you on all the questions I had and the splitting of hairs. Here is the relatively finished setup. The tank has 1" inlet to match the hose and the breathers are baffled (just in case). I need to weld the -16 AN bung to the valve covers, baffle and the filler as well. The -8 an on the oil tank will be used for coolant puke with a check valve inline to control. and of course the tank has a drain on the bottom. this is my first aluminum tank fab and I think it turned out pretty good. thanks for all the input and such. Davin
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Looks good. Nice job
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NICE 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Well my job is done in this department, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Thanks everybody.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/ynaze7up.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/3uquqyqe.jpg)