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Drag Racing Discussions => Drag Racing => Topic started by: GlennLever on August 29, 2014, 08:46:43 PM
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I was testing at the local track here.
I was put up against a door car (test and tune).
I did my normal burn out and backed up, the door car did a burn out and pulled up to the line.
He lit the prestage light, and then I lit my prestage light.
I waited for him to stage, once he did I moved forward to light my stage light, as I moved forward my red light came on.
The starter came out held me, ran the other car and then had me back up and restage and I ran my time trial.
After I returned to the pits, while the track was being prepared for racing, I went over to talk with the starter.
He told me what he suspected happened was the door car prestaged, then turned the stage light on, then backed up to turn it back off.
By doing this he started the timer for staging.
This was done while I was working on turning my pre stage light on.
He says the door car driver then counts off six seconds and then stages (stage clock set to 7 to 10 seconds).
This cuts the time I have to stage to 1 to 3 seconds.
The starter says he has seen this trickery at this track before (understand that as soon as I saw his stage light come on I moved to turn my stage light on, but my red light came on right away).
I asked if this had been a race if that would have been a loss for me and he said yes.
Over dinner I was talking this over with my wife.
She says the crew person for the door car was out in front of the door car helping him stage. The thought has crossed my mind that the crew person might have tripped the stage light (by accident or on purpose as a way to win the race).
Up till now I have always curtsey staged (prestage, allow the other racer to prestage then stage and allow the other racer to stage).
This starter suggested I not do that, double bulb and not worry about what the other racer is doing, feels wrong to me.
This is the first time this has happened to me, has this happened to any of you?
Is this tripping of the stage light legal?
Your thoughts?
Glenn
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In my 50 [ yes] years of dragracing I have not run into that, it sure seems illegal. I bet it is in NHRA racing, maybe it's a local door car trick. NHRA does not allow crew to be near the race cars when staged. I guide my driver to just before the 1'st beam, then back away, so he can finish staging. I'll check the rule book.
But I will tell you I saw the 2013 Comp Elim champ [A/AP] have a problem red lighting, against a certain door car racer. I saw the video of his car not even wringle his slick and his red light came on, after the door car left. NHRA checked his video and the staging beams, and tree, but found no issue. So the thought was since this happend at least twice before with against the same racer, that something fishy was going on. One thought was the door car racer had the photographer stand at the start line and shot flash pictures, and the flash bounced off the front wheel and triggered the red light. NHRA told all photographers to not stand near the start line. Also another fix was to powder coat both front wheels black and added a bigger wheel disc, no red lights after both of those changes.
Crazy Heh ?
Jon
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Why do people have to play so many D... games!! Makes me so mad! Just race your race and have fun.
I'll tell you though Glen, If that had happened to me in eliminations, some people would be getting an ear full.
Couple yrs ago at Norwalk the big thing a certain driver would do was do his burnout and stage backing up. He would back up from his burn out, (acrosss the starting line) light the bottom bulb first and the back up to turn on the pre stage bulb. All of this to get in your head and hurry you though your routine.He did this for quite awhile until people began to complain and pointed out the rule that your last staging movement must be forward.
Dumbest one I've ever seen happen though, was a guy in a ford ranger in one of the gamblers races at the Holloween classic. He dailed a 25 sec. ET for the 1/8 mile against a dragster. Went down the track and STOPPED right before the finish line, waited for the dragster, and then just bumped across the line to win the race then the dragster got close.
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Most tracks these days have auto start on the tree . Once 3 stage lights have been lit the last driver to stage has 10 seconds to put the fourth light on . If not you get an automatic red light .
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Once the final stage light is lit (By either tire or crewmembers foot)once the car has gone into the pre-stage beam, that is considered final stage, and by movment (rocking the front tire or Crew moving their foot) the stage beam goes out, then that is considered flickering the bulbs and a instant DQ. If the inadvertant placement of the crews foot was accidental, then he has some explaining to do with his driver as to why he was DQ. Starters are busy and would have taken my complaint to the tower.
NHRA "Re-staging for a second time is prohibited"
The big problem with the auto-tree is that the starter only has a one button to push and that is pushed when both final stage bulbs are lit and then the computer takes over. In the old days there were other buttons and the starter would have bulbed the guy for flickering/bumping the tree
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curtusy stage is a local track rule and not listed in the general proceedures, manipulating the tree timing system should not be tolerated and should be voiced to the race director. When I get to the shop tomorrow I will locate the passage and post.
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Glenn, This is one thing that I really like about having Jason on with us...He knows these things inside and out. Three bulbs have to come on to activate that timer and yes....Bracket racers will do that.
I have always went by courtesy staging and have turned on both at once on accident....and then went and apologized for my stupidly.
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Its my understanding that three have to be lit for the timer to activate.
Is it possible it actually took you that long to stage?
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we also courtesy stage as a rule however, I used to race somebody who routinely didn't so he basically got double bulbed each time.
Weirdest race was a final where we were both pre-staged, starter steps in front of my slick holding me, other lane had forgotten to put his gloves on, starter allowed his crew to hand him his gloves, then the starter stepped out, we both staged and ran. I won so had no complaint but had I lost I would have been fuming, I can't stand "busy" starters holding cars and intervening un-nessessarily, especially those who lean into the cockpit or stand in front of a tire.
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Auto Start stops people from playing games on the starting line . If you are both pre staged nothing happens . As soon as one car turns on the second light the Auto start turns on and the second driver has 10 seconds to light his second light . If the second driver takes more than 10 seconds he gets an automatic red light ! Glen in your case if it was a test and tune it might not have been turned on . After re reading your post it sounds to me like a malfunction at the starting line of the starter himself or someone in the tower getting button happy !
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I know I'm only running a HA/GR here in Australia but when I took up racing 4 years ago, one of the first articles I read was about start-line procedures and etiquette. It said to wait for the other competitor to be at least near the stage beams before pre-staging. I usually pre-stage, wait for them to pre-stage and then stage. The trouble is not everyone has read the same article but at least I know I'm doing it the courteous way. Courtesy goes out the window when the lights run down .
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I really like to prestage first, and I try hard to do that.
I then wait for the other guy to prestage.
In the last couple of races I have been to more then 50% of the time the other guy has been double bulbing me, forcing me to be the last to stage.
Glenn, what's the benefit of pre-staging first?
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That is why there are fights at a racetrack--if I lost a round to those kinds of actions I would be in butt whipping mode--crude but it works to prevent future problems with that racer-- and if the track lets any racer stage like that -- well then all the better that you are not to attend there again any time soon.
I embrace the entire "nostalgia" package :)
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I have never understood why a racer gets mad over a burn down.With auto timer if you get burned down its your fault.Once both are pre stagged you can stage at any time and if other guy wants to sit there cool,its called a bye run after he is timed out.Nowhere in rule book have I ever read that anyone person has to stage last.
I don't believe in stagging first or last all of the time,too easy for other to get your number and screw with you.If guy want to play game I will play along little then stage and let get big head that he is one up.More than likely he will screw himself in long run.I'm there to race,but if head games they want.They need to know odds are against them and most are not qualified to play.
Racing etiquette is like rest of life now days.Its there but seems lot more don't know anything abut it much less use it.
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Auto timers are not used at all/some tracks. Years ago there use to be drivers meetings where things like staging and starter procedure could be brought up. Not anymore Drivers wouldnt show up and the first to complain that they didnt understand the staging rules. I make it a point to ask the starter about how he runs the track and take advantage of that knowlege, the other guy? should of asked
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I really like to prestage first, and I try hard to do that.
I then wait for the other guy to prestage.
In the last couple of races I have been to more then 50% of the time the other guy has been double bulbing me, forcing me to be the last to stage.
Glenn knowing you prefer to pre-stage first and being your competition I can say that I would pre-stage before you to throw your game off. With me being a clutch car once both cars a pre-staged I start to bring my RPM's up and begin to roll in. The only ritual I have is I try to do my burnout at the same time as my competition for the show.
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That is why there are fights at a racetrack--if I lost a round to those kinds of actions I would be in butt whipping mode--crude but it works to prevent future problems with that racer-- and if the track lets any racer stage like that -- well then all the better that you are not to attend there again any time soon.
I embrace the entire "nostalgia" package :)
You are agreeing or disagreeing with staging etiquette?
I try and present an unflappable appearance, I will take what ever you give me and run my race.
Glenn I am on your side--if the guy stage backwards on purpose to gain an illegal advantage he is an
A#@H*&^ and deserves a word behind the trailer to correct his abuse.
Really the track should have put you in next round and tossed him out. Rules say you must stage in forward motion--everone should know that--if he did not know it --he should remember well after having a round taken away
Tracks are SLACK when it comes to things like these--just ask all the footbrake guys that get slaughtered every week by cars that are illegal and NEVER teched and checked and tossed out
I am doing the FED thing for fun so these type issues don't bother me like they used to when we bracket raced 3 days a week
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Staging in reverse then nailing first gear is a good way to have an explosion with many transmissions! Just sayin
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Wow, it sure sounds like I have a lot to learn about racing. Been around the tracks for years but never noticed those games before. I have seen guys staging while backing up but didn't know it was illegal. Just an amateur I guess?
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Wow, it sure sounds like I have a lot to learn about racing. Been around the tracks for years but never noticed those games before. I have seen guys staging while backing up but didn't know it was illegal. Just an amateur I guess?
I'm not sure where the conversation came from on staging while backing up?
The last move to stage must be in a forward direction.
What I was talking about was double bulbing.
What should happen is one racer sets the pre stage light and then waits until the second racer lights his pre stage light and then waits for the first racer to set the staged light before the second racer moves forward to set his staged light.
Guess I' m alittle at a loss. I always wait for the other person to pre stage, but after that I stage when I am ready. Not based on who pre staged 1st or 2nd.
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Wow, it sure sounds like I have a lot to learn about racing. Been around the tracks for years but never noticed those games before. I have seen guys staging while backing up but didn't know it was illegal. Just an amateur I guess?
I'm not sure where the conversation came from on staging while backing up?
The last move to stage must be in a forward direction.
What I was talking about was double bulbing.
What should happen is one racer sets the pre stage light and then waits until the second racer lights his pre stage light and then waits for the first racer to set the staged light before the second racer moves forward to set his staged light.
Guess I' m alittle at a loss. I always wait for the other person to pre stage, but after that I stage when I am ready. Not based on who pre staged 1st or 2nd.
Yes I agree once both racers are pre-staged it is fair for either racer to roll in first.
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something that happened to me on autostart was my JW trans and trans brake would bounce when applied and when the tree came down I got a red light , cured the problem with a new BTE/Reid pg and pro brake , no more red lights , $5000 poorer too