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Drag Racing Discussions => Electronics => Topic started by: noslin on August 09, 2016, 09:52:21 PM

Title: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: noslin on August 09, 2016, 09:52:21 PM
what wheelie bar sensors are on the market aside from racepak.   

ty
dean
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: H.G. Wells on August 10, 2016, 10:01:15 AM
Are the sensors specific to the brand of recorder? I do not yet have one but like RPM Performance out of OKC. Many friends have their system and I have heard no complains.
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: dreracecar on August 10, 2016, 04:17:42 PM
white shoe polish from KIWI brands    $2.49
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: noslin on August 10, 2016, 04:35:08 PM
shoe polish... SOLD  :)

just a 0-5v sensor.  does not have to be data logger manuf. specific.  can adjust values for min/max in software.    im gonna do some more digging, ill look and see what RPM Performance uses and maybe i can use that too if just a 0-5v sensor.   when doing search's for load sensors Racepak always comes up.  i can find the load sensors themselves and fab a housing etc for it.

ty
dean
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: dreracecar on August 10, 2016, 04:53:47 PM
Im questioning the need for it and what you hope to acheive by having one?

 Now I have installed hight sensors on the back of fuel cars that measure tire squat- getting up on the tire-and when they go up in smoke, all base on time after the hit to allow an understanding of clutch settings and so forth. That little do-hickky (about the size of a zippo lighter) is around $700
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: noslin on August 10, 2016, 06:51:39 PM
the ride height sensors are spendy.   i was looking at them for my old car.   i understand this type of racing has been around for eons and people still race till this day with minimal 'accessories' and are very competitive and win races.     i can see with a clutch car it would be important on setting up the clutch and dealing with the hit.   honestly, its just something i would like to do.
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: Mister_Fitz on August 10, 2016, 09:47:30 PM
noslin and others:
Which datalogger, brand and model, do you use?
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: dreracecar on August 11, 2016, 08:16:40 AM
Spiral note book and a papermate pen with blue ink
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: wideopen231 on August 11, 2016, 08:36:20 AM
bet that notebook never has bad battery!LOL
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: masracingtd1167 on August 11, 2016, 01:20:18 PM
When we were running the Comp car the most important things to monitor were engine rpm and drive shaft rpm . We would also monitor fuel pressure , oil pressure egt and pan vac . As far as the wheelie bar goes we used good old american playground chalk ! Real easy to put on and easy to see on the track !
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: wideopen231 on August 11, 2016, 05:57:00 PM
Not sure what wheelie bar sensor will tell you that front wheel sensor doesn't.If wheels are in air you know.I think chalk or shoe polish will tell you what wheelie bar is doing,provided you have decent helper on the line with you.
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: George on August 12, 2016, 04:41:18 AM
Wheel chalk along with a helper at the rear of the car is what I do. I have one helper with an I phone recording the run in slow motion helps as well.  I see some of the pro teams use a camera on the track to capture movement at the tire & wheelie bar.
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: dreracecar on August 12, 2016, 08:11:54 AM
The problem with all this electronic available information is that most dont know how to read it or what to do with it that all it becomes is just pretty squigly lines on the computer screen to impress people. Just look at the pros--- they have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested and they still miss.

  Learn how to judge and tune without it, then you will not have to worry about the system crashing
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: wideopen231 on August 12, 2016, 12:10:56 PM
Don't always agree with Bruce.Here he is dead on.I use the old school tunning and dbl check the computer.Best computer in the world has hard time telling you what is happening in combustion chamber like a spark plug.Then you have to know how to read them both.

The best tool you have is little piece of paper you get after the run.Any tool that helps figure out why it is the way it is,is a good thing IMO.If you feel a sensor on wheelie bar will help you then by all means use it.
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: GlennLever on August 12, 2016, 08:32:31 PM
Remember everyone has the right to go a different way.
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: dreracecar on August 12, 2016, 09:42:43 PM
So very true, you have the right to either jump out the window or take the elevator, both will get you to the bottom floor
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on August 13, 2016, 02:40:26 AM
I use playground chalk, on the WB wheel, mustly because the chalk comes in different colors, so we can tell which marks on the track are ours. I'll add more front-end weight when we get 2 or more chalk marks, the 1'st one comes at the hit when the slick squats.
I don't use a wheelie bar sensor, but Alan at A-1 Trans and converters suggested I try one when I asked about how I could reduce the "J" hooks I see on the driveshaft curve on my RacePak. He said it would tell me how much pressure is being put on the WB, and that would give me an idea how much more ballast for the front end. It's all about car balance, I can't tell you how many times I've told racers to put another 15-20 lbs on the nose and run a quicker ET, besides being able to steer the car.
I use the V300 RacePak data-logger, if you don't run a mag they sell a cheaper "Sportsman" model, but I run a MSD 20amp Mag so I need the V300. I know Bruce[ dreracecar] does not need a data-logger because he has figured out his 7.0 combo, but I'm trying to run in the 6's in Heritage JrFuel. So my "squigly lines" tell me what converter to run, what tire pressure, launch rpm, driveshaft/tire speed, shift rpm, finish-line rpm, besides fuel pressure, fuel flow, egt's, vacuum. Besides the RacePak, I also keep track on my run sheets of weather, jets, timing, ET slip, driveshaft speed, exhaust at the hit, max G's, egt, fuel pressure & fuel flow at shift and at finishline, rpm right after the shift [ true converter stall ] oil pressure, high speed shim pack, and track, tire, engine, temps, at startline and after the runs. I keep a run sheet for each race, so I can go back to the sheets the next time I race at that track.
I hope this helps.
Feel free to call with any questions, 805-444-4489, Jon at Hayden Wheels and JrFuel DragsterAssociation
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: noslin on August 18, 2016, 05:08:41 PM
Spiral note book and a papermate pen with blue ink

im thinking about using the MoTec CDL3 dash logger and the E888 egt expander.   CDL3 can log up to 500hz and up to 300 channels.   only thing with motec, its not a plug and play deal like Racepak.  but, your not paying 175 to 250.00 and up for each sensor.  just use standard 0-5v off the shelf sensors.  also, you cant beat the data logging software either.   

so, 3k for cdl3 and e888.    versus racepak dash, sportsman and egt module.  basically the same price.. but, a standard off-the-shelf oil pressure sensor is what 20 bucks?   verus 250 for race pak.. thats where you would save with the motec in my opion let alone have a better sample rate, more channels, and best data log software on teh market.

as mentioned, its not plug and play like race pak.. so take a little effort to use. 
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: Rodchucker on September 17, 2016, 03:34:05 AM
Try a cheap go pro knock off mounted on the wheelie bar or diff, I find that works well.
Title: Re: wheelie bar sensor
Post by: noslin on September 17, 2016, 09:12:42 AM
i should of put more thought into this before posting.  quartermax sells two load cells. just need to get 0-5 3k or 5k sensor and wire it in.  simple deal.

http://quartermax.com/rj-wheelie-bar-load-cell/

http://quartermax.com/wheelie-bar-load-cell-single/