FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Technical => Roo Man's Room => Topic started by: Pipe Dreams on May 05, 2013, 09:07:15 AM
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Ok guys, lookin around the site and think my set-up is really lacking in 60' compared to alot of others. Granted I need more test passes to see what the car likes, but just wondering what you guys thinks for basic set-up and and how close or far off I may be.
Here is my setup so far.
170" wb flexable flyer, motor set 30" out
1583 lbs w/ driver 18/82 front to rear weight bias
415 12.8/1 cr smallblock mopar est. 600hp on gas
1.76 shorty glide 5200 stall 8" custom coan convertor
4.30 gears
33x12 m&h set 6.5 psi
35 lbs ballest and 5' single wheel wheelie bar set at 3"
Launching @ 3800 to 4000 w/ transbrake-per coan
Best 60' has been a 1.22 but averages 1.25 to 1.30' depending on track prep.
Currently converting to injected alcohol.
If any more info needed is needed let me know and any help is great.
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Try 6 pounds in the tires. If they have too much pressure, it will try to dead hook and that's not good for 60' times. You need wheel speed off the line to keep those rpm's up and not pull the motor down. Controlled tire spin is your friend. Do you have a data logger on your car?
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No, I don't have a data logger on the car. Have run the tire pressure is low as five and a half pounds didn't feel safer going much lower than that.
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Data logger will keep you sane when looking to go faster and it saves you money in the long run. You can play with tire pressure, launch rpm, gearing, etc. to get those tires moving.
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Data logger will keep you sane when looking to go faster and it saves you money in the long run. You can play with tire pressure, launch rpm, gearing, etc. to get those tires moving.
X2 I love my data logger!
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Once you go to injected alky you pick up a lot of tourqe this should make your converter a little looser. I think this will help some . Your tires look a little big . Try to borrow a smaller set from someone . Cajuninjector is right you need wheel speed and from what i have learned a FED need's quite a bit .Keep us posted with your progress.
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Had a set of used 31x13 Mickey's on the car when I first ran it. Then went to the 33x12 M& H Nostalgia top fuel tires. 60' times improved almost a tenth with the Bigger softer compound tire. I do think I need more wheel speed though as you guy's have suggested.
The cars seemed to like low tire pressure and the wheelie set lower to help in get up on the tire. As this Picture shows I am sure that it is dead hooking. It seems to wad the M&H's up pretty good.
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more air.more rpm and maybe few pounds more on front end to keep it down and not transferring weight. Maybe take weight from rear and add to front 20 lbs or so would be my guess,but that all it is a guess.
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My car is somewhat close to yours.
175 wheel base, Motor out 31, Car is stiff with a torsion bar, Iron head 355 SBC, Injected Alcohol, 182 first gear, 5200 converter, leave around 3,000 rpm, 4.10 rear, 14x32 M Ts, 4lbs air, Tried more didn't help, 76" wheelie bar from axel c/l, Never weighed it, At least 30# on the nose.
Its gone as quick as 8.45 1.14 60'. But not consistantly. It hits the wheelie bar and unloads the rear tires. I found if I slow it down to 8.60 1.25 60' with a pnumatic cylinder and a needle valve it,s deadly consistant. Good enough to bracket race.
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I agree with the comments that a little wheel speed at the launch might be a good idea. On Mark Vaught's car we run the bar around an inch off the ground (6' long bar) and the bar has enough flex that the front wheels are usually about 6" up. If we run the bar too high the car rotates too quickly, any lower and it will smoke the tires before it get up on them.
Roo
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Find a set of Goodyear 2585s. Lightweight grow tire. 12 x 31 x 15. It is much lighter than any other tire in this size. The majority of class legal JR Fuel cars run them.
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Thanks for all the ideas guys, good things to think about and try when I get the car running.
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On our funnycar I had clutch set so it would haze (just short of smoke) the tires at the hit,If it did not it might make it half way thru first before the drivers brian bounced off track from the shake. A FEDE is a lot like funnycar in how it acts due to driver position,except we have more weight on rear which adds to problem.Especailly us older fat guys.
Problem is if your trying to bracket race a car its hard to get consistent spin amount so that car can print numbers. A loose converter helps a lot from what I have been told.
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My 165" Woody Gilmore with the 408 injected on alcohol, engine so far back I tickled the bell housing with my feet, loved to launch up on the pipe, 5500 - 6200. Wheel speed is the key, found the 10.5 slicks work really good on FED's. If you're wadding the slicks, up the air pressure til you get just 4 wrinkles, and they need to be in front of the axle centerline. It takes a spotter or a video camera to catch the launch to see what's happening.
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If you're wadding the slicks, up the air pressure til you get just 4 wrinkles, and they need to be in front of the axle centerline. It takes a spotter or a video camera to catch the launch to see what's happening.
That right there is one xxxx of an analytical statement, food for thought. Fits right in with lately trend for folks to film everything they do, even taking a dump. And I do not mean that sarcastically, I've fabricated a few mounts for cameras on my car to record what happens.
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Pipe dreams, did you ever get a chance to make some passes and see if you could improve your 60' times?
We have been dropping our wheelie bar and really getting some good wheel speed. 5.5 lbs of air in Goodyear 2585's. You may be able to get a set at carter maxwell right now
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We are also using the 33X12 Hoosiers and we got out to the track Sunday finally....
All new combo and running real rich and 32 timing 1st pass was a1.22 60'. We drove the car out like you were getting up on the highway 8.25 @ 166.
Next pass we lean out the fuel and at about 5200 rpm we blew the tires off to where I had to get out of it straighten out and get back on it.
200"FED Wheelie bar at 1.5" tires were at 8.25psi. Leaving the line at about 3200rpm.
There is a video link in my build thread.
Any advice? It's always appreciated ;)
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I run that same tire on mine and we are still trying to figure out how much air to run in them . Right now 6 and a half to 7 seems to be the sweet spot . When we ran the Goodyear 1288's 6lbs worked great but the Hoosier wants more air .Bill
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Bill if you watch my third run from last weekend you'll see we have a positive problem to overcome ;D I will drop to 7.0psi in the tires to see where that puts things.
If you run a wheelie bar where is your wheel hight set?
Thanks for the input
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I set my bar with a 4x4 under the wheel with no one in the car . An inch and a half seams kind of low . When you launch your tires will squat and the chassis will arch and if your bar is too low it could unload the tires . Also with over 8 lbs in the tire it might not let the tire work right . I wold start at 7lbs and the bar at 3 inches and have some one watch the car at the hit . Also if you put some shoe polish on your wheelie bar wheel it will tell you if you are hitting the bar or not . Keep us posted .Bill
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Thanks Bill I'll give it a shot next time out. I was also very rich on the Barrel valve adjustment, which has now been set with a leakdown gauge. We are ready to go testing again, just waiting for a place to go.
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Ok guy's, I know this is a super old post, but finally got a smaller set of tires on the car. Got a really good set of 31 x 10.5 Hoosiers on the car add went testing this past week end. After a little wheelie bar adjustment, BOOM!!! 1.15 Sixty foot and that was leaving at 2200.
This brings up another question though. When I was testing with the old tires the car was quicker 60' leaving from 2200 with the trans brake than at 3800 and a lot more consistant. Why would the car be quicker launching at the lower rpm? 3800 to 4000 was where I was told to launch the car by the coan when I ordered the torque convertor. Did'nt get a chance to try the higher rpm with the smaller tires yet. Either way super happy the car is consistantly .05 faster in 60'.
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are you running all out or on an index???
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Ok guy's, I know this is a super old post, but finally got a smaller set of tires on the car. Got a really good set of 31 x 10.5 Hoosiers on the car add went testing this past week end. After a little wheelie bar adjustment, BOOM!!! 1.15 Sixty foot and that was leaving at 2200.
This brings up another question though. When I was testing with the old tires the car was quicker 60' leaving from 2200 with the trans brake than at 3800 and a lot more consistant. Why would the car be quicker launching at the lower rpm? 3800 to 4000 was where I was told to launch the car by the coan when I ordered the torque convertor. Did'nt get a chance to try the higher rpm with the smaller tires yet. Either way super happy the car is consistantly .05 faster in 60'.
I seem to be having the same problem with my 60 ft times since I switched to the 2585 Goodyears . My 60 ft's are way off from what I was running with the 12x33 Hoosiers . I have been dropping my launch rpm and they are getting better . I started at 6400 and am now down to 4200 and the 60 ft's are getting better . I might even try 3800 the next time out .My sixty ft's started at 1.14 and I am down to 1.10 . With the Hoosier's I was around 1.07 . My other numbers are better with the Goodyears my eighth mile is better 4.70 from 4.78 and mph 148 from 145 . I have heard a lot of good things about that 10.5 tire . Just keep trying things till you find that sweet spot . Bill
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I am running the car all out. Car is just a bracket car running super pro. Looking at running the 8.50 index at the NDRL race at Milan the end of sept. All passes last time out were beween 8.51 to 8.55 and the air was horrible, so I think I have a chance at doing fairly well. Sure wouldlike to run 8.0 though. Have some plans for the engine in the off season, so we' ll see next year
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To me that's what makes drag racing fun always wanting to go quicker !
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I am running the car all out. Car is just a bracket car running super pro. Looking at running the 8.50 index at the NDRL race at Milan the end of sept. All passes last time out were beween 8.51 to 8.55 and the air was horrible, so I think I have a chance at doing fairly well. Sure wouldlike to run 8.0 though. Have some plans for the engine in the off season, so we' ll see next year
Come over and say hi when you are at Milan, we will be there. I like index racing and the .004 pro tree
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I was wondering if you were going to be there. I will most definatly stop by and say hello.
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I help a friend with his fed and we have been having 60' problems also. Been chasing the tune up thinking its the problem. Found it is not in the tune up. Changed the convertor and switched to alky injection at the same time so it made it difficult. In two weeks we will find some interesting info for us. Changed out brand X convertor to a continental convertor(more on brand x later). Went from a super 9"(9 1/2") 5000 rpm convertor to a 8" 6000-6200 rpm. We leave at 4800 before and now will leave at 5800 on two step. Will be interesting how much change we get in 60'. 60' have been 1.20 to 1.24. Hoping to get in the 1.08 to 1.10 range without doing wheel stands. Its never fast enough is the problem. Would like to see the fed in the 7.60 range soon. What do you all think?
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My Flexplate (if you can call it that) weighs in at 12# and I use the inerciha to get things moving
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I have a little 355 injected and I found a Continental 8 inch by accident--was marked 6000 on the box --was behind a monster 18 degree small block big cube so I just knew it would be too loose but it was at a yard sale and near free so i figured WTH
It is by far one of the best drag converters I have ever had--it is loose but...works perfect no matter what RPM I leave at--seems very good in high gear no heat no detectable slip etc I LOVE that converter--it is sort of like a rubber band--leave at idle perfect! Leave at 4000 and it will flip the car over---As east coat guy we were never exposed to that west coat brand--I figured they all get the parts at the same place so imagined most brands were all about the same but...I LIKE my Continental 8 inch!!!!!!!
The wrong converter can ruin a good drag cars performance faster than anything
I have smallish roller cam 255/260 at 050 600 lift on a 106
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So I have seen a few talk about weight bias/front to rear weight. Is there a method to setting up a fed weight % front to rear? Or is it trial and error? Sorry kinda new to this and find this interesting.
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I have a little 355 injected and I found a Continental 8 inch by accident--was marked 6000 on the box --was behind a monster 18 degree small block big cube so I just knew it would be too loose but it was at a yard sale and near free so i figured WTH
It is by far one of the best drag converters I have ever had--it is loose but...works perfect no matter what RPM I leave at--seems very good in high gear no heat no detectable slip etc I LOVE that converter--it is sort of like a rubber band--leave at idle perfect! Leave at 4000 and it will flip the car over---As east coat guy we were never exposed to that west coat brand--I figured they all get the parts at the same place so imagined most brands were all about the same but...I LIKE my Continental 8 inch!!!!!!!
The wrong converter can ruin a good drag cars performance faster than anything
I have smallish roller cam 255/260 at 050 600 lift on a 106
Agree with you on that. Always have had great luck with Continental in door cars. Good to hear. Hope we have the same luck.
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So I have seen a few talk about weight bias/front to rear weight. Is there a method to setting up a fed weight % front to rear? Or is it trial and error? Sorry kinda new to this and find this interesting.
Its like a blind man playing pool --hit or miss
There are so many variables to consider that for 99.9% of the people out there that once the car is built and tested is usually how it stays. Any changes usually gets applied on the next car
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Did some testing on Friday night. WOW what a change the convertor made. Track was not in good shape. Picked up in 60'. Sideways on first pass he pedaled it once and went 7.86 right off trailer. made 5 passes and all were very loose. Every pass faster than fed has ever went. Best pass was a 7.80. Had a great time. You get what you pay for in a convertor for sure. And Scott did a xxxx of a driving job. Cut a perfect light .0001! Tried to attach time slips but file was too big.
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Converter can make a huge change if off a small amount and when they are way off its like whole different car. Good to hear you woke her up some.
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So I have seen a few talk about weight bias/front to rear weight. Is there a method to setting up a fed weight % front to rear? Or is it trial and error? Sorry kinda new to this and find this interesting.
Its like a blind man playing pool --hit or miss
There are so many variables to consider that for 99.9% of the people out there that once the car is built and tested is usually how it stays. Any changes usually gets applied on the next car
Might be cheaper if I could do that .I always have to look for more.heck if I was .3 a head of the field I would want .2 more and that would only be for that weekend.