FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Altereds => Topic started by: buickfed on June 12, 2020, 01:40:35 PM
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new dilemma. naturally buick only. bought this 125'' altered. we are going to try to run the altered with 2 buick v6's. back one will be with a 4-71 on it. front one will be with an inglese weber setup. these were made when mr peabody and the wabac machine was on tv.
the webers are a 3bbl and belong on a 67-68 Porsche. needless to say they are worth some dough.
the dilemma is cooling. making a water cooled system would be a big pain, so we are thinking of ''drinking fluid''. the big question is can we run ''drinking fluid'' in the webers? the holleys are no problem, just the webers. anybody know anything about this wild scenario?? lol
you chebbie guys got it easy.....come over to my side.....lol
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You can run alky in anything as long as the passages and jets are big enough.
but why run two different motors, one with a blower should be enough and run a bigger blower which would make the same boost at a lower speed.
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just to be different. besides the engine is just sitting around doing nothing.
the fed uses a 350 buick with a 6-71 on it. how many of those do you see around
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i know on the aircooled vw's with 48's (same design but two port) with alky they were not able to flow enough when you start to get up to about 300hp. problem is bowl size mostly, not enough volumn in the bowl to keep up. in the bowl, you can cut that web in there and increase the bowl a little bit. youll probably have to go to 300 needle and seats and drill the piss out of the jets. a guy (and icon in the vw industry) to talk to would be Gary Berg. he is rebuilding the IDA'a and they look immaculate when he is done. he is in so cal. (https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91458782_10158033153535675_6599528347670151168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=ehpkoYmxisAAX9i80TH&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=7fccf0a2bbbd78421f723366fd6fcafa&oe=5F0C7169)
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stopped at the Porsche garage today to talk about the alky issue. they did say i was probably limited to h/p but it would be neat to try it. the mechanic ran buick turbos in days past. more thought is needed.
they just replaced an engine in one of the Porsches. it came in with a 215 buick engine in it. thats different. ;D
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Should be able to duplicate the float less system that was used years ago. Needles and float removed for unrestricted flow. Bowls were tapped for fuel outlet line (don't) remember size of fitting but larger than inlet. Located so fuel never gets above normal high mark when using floats. It is now constant flow , use low pressure and high out put alky compatible pump. As long as pump can supply more volume than what engine can pull through the jets you are golden. The jets and circuits must flow a bit more than double the amount of gas by weight. I have some charts stashed some where . I will look. This system was used for a while on VW& porsche powered off road race cars to combat float bounce flooding problems . Also used to use Methanol fuel in Mikuni motorcyle carbs for drag racing. Did not have to delete floats on those. Just used correct jets , needles , and needle jets (emulsion tubes) in order to flow larger volume required. As far as the Mods to the down draft webers info should still be floating around on internet. I think it was called constant flow or floatless system. I can't remember that far back. internet search should come up with this stuff if I can't find it on book shelves.
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Should be able to duplicate the float less system that was used years ago. Needles and float removed for unrestricted flow. Bowls were tapped for fuel outlet line (don't) remember size of fitting but larger than inlet. Located so fuel never gets above normal high mark when using floats. It is now constant flow , use low pressure and high out put alky compatible pump. As long as pump can supply more volume than what engine can pull through the jets you are golden. The jets and circuits must flow a bit more than double the amount of gas by weight. I have some charts stashed some where . I will look. This system was used for a while on VW& porsche powered off road race cars to combat float bounce flooding problems . Also used to use Methanol fuel in Mikuni motorcyle carbs for drag racing. Did not have to delete floats on those. Just used correct jets , needles , and needle jets (emulsion tubes) in order to flow larger volume required. As far as the Mods to the down draft webers info should still be floating around on internet. I think it was called constant flow or floatless system. I can't remember that far back. internet search should come up with this stuff if I can't find it on book shelves.
there was an article in hot vw's back in the 80's one time on (what they called it) full flowing the carbs. tried to find it a few years ago but no luck. aside from having enough volume i dont think the jets can be opened big enough to provide the fuel.
dean
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cool. info is always appreciated for things not normal. lol
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Put a 2 port Hilborn on it and have fun. Still oldschool ;)
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I believe that the needle and seat plus the floats are removed, and a hole is drilled and a return line is installed at fuel level and pressure is reduced to lessen the chance of flooding, I think that a fuel injection pump might work because the flow increases with RPM would be trial and error! would be easier to sell the carbs and and buy stack injectors
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been a while, other things got in the way.
did talk to the porsche guys about the webers. staying with gas.
sent the rear out to the trans/rear guy. rear is a 9'' ford floater, circa older than 1983. parts are special now and $$$.
hopefully done this month and i can get back on the ground.
bought a v6 that had a 471 on it. had the blower intake, roller rockers, arp head studs, bored and balanced for $250 plus gas to atco nj.
found another blower intake on ebay and i modified a turbo to a blower intake. 3 intakes and 1 blower. but i got the weber setup.
have to send the chassis out to cut out a pipe in the chassis. front engine pan hits it. also going to cut the nose off and move the control arms behind the front axle so it at least looks like an older altered.
since info for coupling 2 engines is a BIG secret in the racing world......working on it now. already scrapped one piece because the flywheel bolt pattern was upside down
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got the rear back. weighs a lot more with all the parts in it. running 4.56's in it.
at least it will be back on the ground to see how other stuff will fit.
waiting for the trans guy redo his t350 that has a 3.08 first gear. be an interesting launch.
got my new piece of material so i can make the coupler correct this time. paper weights are getting expensive.
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buickfed - your 14.04 starting line ratio might be too aggressive (e.g. overpowering slicks). Of course with your two V6 Buicks inline, and we don’t know how much torque they make together, maybe not, it might be ideal. I’ll take a guess you’ll be shifting 1-2 right before the 60 foot line. Is 2nd gear a normal TH350 1.52? Alan
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36x17-16 slicks came on it. don't think the v6's will over power them. lol. this project is just r&d for me to see if i can do it. i am not making it a 8-9 sec car. it will be more of 13-14 sec car.
the trans belongs to the trans/rear shop. mine to use on this project.
say one thing, there a ton of little issues to iron out. we will be lucky if we make the track this year with it. i still have to do a check up on the dragster engine.
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I think you are selling yourself short if you think that it will only run 13-14's you should be making aleast 600hp to 900hp just guessing but those buick v6's are heavy best of luck!
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not looking to go fast with this one. this is what i wanted to do to the fed when i bought it. but i wasn't going to cut up the chassis for it. so now i have a car i can do it to. i have the fed for going fast. ;D
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rear is in. pre installation guestimated d/shaft at 24''. wrong! had to order a 22''. better now. waiting for trans man for trans/converter. had to order more stock for my miscalculations and more nuts and bolts because some dummy forgets things. mcmaster-carr has been my friend for tooling. just couldn't get a 15/32 drill to go around corners.
all the little things keep adding up $$$.
we will get this thing done sooner or later. lol
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finished both sides of the engine coupler. bad memory caused wrong bolt size order. now i got spare metric bolts with no home. :-[
got main engine in and then set in a dummy one for coupler trial. need to cut coupler lengths down. too far out. plus i only planned to cut one crossbar due to oil pan. now it looks like have to redo the x bars for oil pan.
xxxx unseen items keep popping up. ::)
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i had checked both couplers for concentricity b4 assy and were good. assembled not good. runout together was about .030-.040 tir. separated the engines and by themselves they ran about .005 tir. confusing the least. think i'll start it with one engine until i figure the issues out
got the m/cyl and hand brake handle done. original master was an airheart.
finally decided to fix intake gasket on the dragster. moving one side to the other, forgot how high it was on the dollies. foot caught the rail and i went down on the other rail. left a nice line just below the knee cap.