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Drag Racing Discussions => Altereds => Topic started by: ChevJerico on January 17, 2019, 11:52:41 AM

Title: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 17, 2019, 11:52:41 AM
I'm in the early stages of deciding if it's feasible or not.  Thinking of stepping up, and purchasing a roller, and build my own 392 Hemi.  Trying to get an idea of cost with the Hemi.  Would like it to be blown on gas or methanol for the look, but that would probably be too much power for 8.60
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on January 17, 2019, 06:13:46 PM
The 105" w.b. is relatively inconsequential. Some 100" AA/FAs run in the sixes. What is needed is the total weight of the car and driver to give you a fairly accurate idea of how much power you will need at the rear wheels. Add about 10% for a well engineered drivetrain and that will be your crankshaft HP.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 17, 2019, 06:31:21 PM
The 105" w.b. is relatively inconsequential. Some 100" AA/FAs run in the sixes. What is needed is the total weight of the car and driver to give you a fairly accurate idea of how much power you will need at the rear wheels. Add about 10% for a well engineered drivetrain and that will be your crankshaft HP.

Oh hey thanks, Guess I kind of worded that wrong.  I'm looking for a nostalgia Altered, but I know it's a matter of weight.  I'm not sure how much a 105" Altered weighs?  Assuming drivetrain loss and a little extra horsepower.   I'm guessing about 1750 car and driver equals about 600 horsepower.  Does that sound right?  Just trying to get a rough idea with a little extra power just in case.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: dreracecar on January 19, 2019, 04:48:53 PM
weight divided ET3 ( et x et x et) X 197.14

 So if the car weighs   1750# / 636 ( 8.60 ET3)  =  2.75
 2.75 x 197.14  =  542 HP
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 20, 2019, 04:12:51 AM
weight divided ET3 ( et x et x et) X 197.14

 So if the car weighs   1750# / 636 ( 8.60 ET3)  =  2.75
 2.75 x 197.14  =  542 HP

Hey thanks, gives me an idea of what engine and how much it will cost.  Was dreaming about a 392 Hemi, but might have to settle for the run of the mill BBC,SBC.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: jeff/21 on January 20, 2019, 07:05:52 AM
why are you settling? is it because of cost, we all have budgets yes Chev's are the cheapest and easiest to get parts for and 600hp isn't that hard to achieve sometime it's best to put dreams aside  and finish the project.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 20, 2019, 11:07:23 AM
why are you settling? is it because of cost, we all have budgets yes Chev's are the cheapest and easiest to get parts for and 600hp isn't that hard to achieve sometime it's best to put dreams aside  and finish the project.

Yea, plus I have a couple other projects I need to finish ;D

Just trying to get a cost idea to run NE2, think I have a good idea now.  Thanks everyone for your input.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: fuel749 on January 27, 2019, 03:46:12 PM
We run a 105" Altered at 1600 pounds with a stack injected 355 sbc.  Best of 8.79 in great weather.  Runs 8.90 like clockwork year round, we slow it down a bit to run the 9.0 class at our local track.   Shouldn't be much of a trick to build a 392 to run 8.60's. 
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 27, 2019, 05:37:49 PM
We run a 105" Altered at 1600 pounds with a stack injected 355 sbc.  Best of 8.79 in great weather.  Runs 8.90 like clockwork year round, we slow it down a bit to run the 9.0 class at our local track.   Shouldn't be much of a trick to build a 392 to run 8.60's.

Thanks fuel749,  I'll run my Chevelle, while I build a low buck altered.  Never thought I'd step up, but I think I can do a hemi on a budget since I do my own work.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: Rat on January 27, 2019, 06:39:31 PM
Even at 1800# a fairly mild methanol stack injected 392 with cast heads should make enough power to run 8.60
Currently helping out building a 392 now to go into a FED should be on track in a few months
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 27, 2019, 06:42:10 PM
Even at 1800# a fairly mild methanol stack injected 392 with cast heads should make enough power to run 8.60
Currently helping out building a 392 now to go into a FED should be on track in a few months

That's what I was hoping to hear :D
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on January 28, 2019, 08:46:00 AM
weight divided ET3 ( et x et x et) X 197.14

 So if the car weighs   1750# / 636 ( 8.60 ET3)  =  2.75
 2.75 x 197.14  =  542 HP

I believe that would be the HP delivered at the rear wheels. So if you add 10% for the drivetrain losses - say, 55 HP - you get around 600 HP at the crankshaft, as you surmised.

As a frame of reference my 1800# six cylinder S/Pro (car and driver) has gone 9.00@147 (5.60 eighth) and puts 487 HP to the ground, or about 540 HP at the crank.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 28, 2019, 09:18:05 AM
weight divided ET3 ( et x et x et) X 197.14

 So if the car weighs   1750# / 636 ( 8.60 ET3)  =  2.75
 2.75 x 197.14  =  542 HP

I believe that would be the HP delivered at the rear wheels. So if you add 10% for the drivetrain losses - say, 55 HP - you get around 600 HP at the crankshaft, as you surmised.

As a frame of reference my 1800# six cylinder S/Pro (car and driver) has gone 9.00@147 (5.60 eighth) and puts 487 HP to the ground, or about 540 HP at the crank.

Thanks FF, nice to have some real world numbers!
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on January 28, 2019, 09:19:12 PM
Here is some info on another combination, one of the egines we run in our all iron early 310 ci [ limit at time it was built] pure alky burning Hemi racing in NHRA Heritage JrFuel , we chose the 354 block, because Gene Adams said it is stronger, and 331 heads, because it's alittle lighter, and the port shapes are good for OEM head , plus you don't have to weld up the heat riser in the head. we use a block filler to help make the block stronger , TI valves and Rocker Arm Specialties 1.8 ratio on the intakes, for one reason because the Hemi has a limit on cam size so we make it up on ratio, custom billet piston, because burning alky works better with as high compression as possible , not too common since so many Hemis are super charged, but JF rules are stack injectors. On a dyno we made 873hp and in our 225 wb dragster with Power Glide with a 7" converter stall at 8300, and shifting at 91-9200 in our 1485 lb car with driver. OH ya the slick limit is 12" on 12" wide rims. We won a JF Championship with this combo running the best at 7.02@187 mph.   
I know this not what you are looking for, but I thought I'd give you something to think about.
Come to the March Meet and watch us run the Hemi
Call if you want more info 805-444-4489, cell
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 29, 2019, 07:23:24 AM
Here is some info on another combination, one of the egines we run in our all iron early 310 ci [ limit at time it was built] pure alky burning Hemi racing in NHRA Heritage JrFuel , we chose the 354 block, because Gene Adams said it is stronger, and 331 heads, because it's alittle lighter, and the port shapes are good for OEM head , plus you don't have to weld up the heat riser in the head. we use a block filler to help make the block stronger , TI valves and Rocker Arm Specialties 1.8 ratio on the intakes, for one reason because the Hemi has a limit on cam size so we make it up on ratio, custom billet piston, because burning alky works better with as high compression as possible , not too common since so many Hemis are super charged, but JF rules are stack injectors. On a dyno we made 873hp and in our 225 wb dragster with Power Glide with a 7" converter stall at 8300, and shifting at 91-9200 in our 1485 lb car with driver. OH ya the slick limit is 12" on 12" wide rims. We won a JF Championship with this combo running the best at 7.02@187 mph.   
I know this not what you are looking for, but I thought I'd give you something to think about.
Come to the March Meet and watch us run the Hemi
Call if you want more info 805-444-4489, cell

Hey Jon, man that's some crazy power out of that small mill at 9200 ;D.  I need to pay a little more attention to JF.  I didn't know you guys were running all iron combinations. I remember mention of heads by the announcer a few years back.  I've probably seen you guys run a couple times.  We are going to miss the MM this year, but will make the CHRR.  We are going to Florida to find a place to live, and see if we like it.  We will be taking my older brother to the Gatornationals.  Big Daddy is going to be there, so we are excited about that.  We toured Big's museum last September.  Plus we are going to hit up the NMCA street machine nationals at Bradenton.  The hardest part for me and leaving California would be leaving the Nostalgia scene, but we will fly out for the MM, and CHHR.  Could be a year or two before we make the move.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on January 29, 2019, 07:03:42 PM
My Wisconsin partner and I raced The Gators in 1969-71, and the 1'st time I drove Jerry Newmans RED Top Fuel dragster which we ended up Div 3 TF Champion. The 69 race we raced our BBC BB/GD, which we won at the 69 U.S. Nationals, and at the 70 & 71 race we ran our dual BBC Top Gas dragster. Too Bad NHRA eliminated TG after 71, but we still raced our TG car at match races in 72, including at Jacksonville FL.  Connie Swingle invited us over to Big's shop so we could fix our chassis. We liked GatorNationals  track and event.
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on January 30, 2019, 06:02:47 AM
My Wisconsin partner and I raced The Gators in 1969-71, and the 1'st time I drove Jerry Newmans RED Top Fuel dragster which we ended up Div 3 TF Champion. The 69 race we raced our BBC BB/GD, which we won at the 69 U.S. Nationals, and at the 70 & 71 race we ran our dual BBC Top Gas dragster. Too Bad NHRA eliminated TG after 71, but we still raced our TG car at match races in 72, including at Jacksonville FL.  Connie Swingle invited us over to Big's shop so we could fix our chassis. We liked GatorNationals  track and event.

That's some cool history.  Didn't know they had TF at divisionals.  Are you guys going to the CHRR this year?  On a side note I was reading about the Donovan engine.  Why did people race them even after the 426 came out?  When did Donovan's become obsolete for the big show?

Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: dreracecar on January 30, 2019, 08:41:46 AM
426 wasnt that good until the learned to throw a bunch of timing into it.  2 things that hurt the Donovan, was that it was a small company machining the blocks by hand and could not keep up with the orders and the bottom end main caps were a one piece girdle and you had to drop (35 bolts) it to check even just one bearing. I was not because the Donovan was a bad engine, in fact, its 100# lighter and currently is the dominate engine used in Nostalgia Top Fuel running 5.50's @ 260mph. nobody in NTF has gotten a 426 to work, NFC can get the 426 to work because they get a 2speed
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: JrFuel Hayden on January 30, 2019, 01:14:48 PM
We ran a Donovan in Jerry's TF car in 73 , one problem we had was the Donovan's made bottom end power than the 426's, so we had traction issues.
I heard the same thing Bruce said 426's needed more timing [ more low end power]
And I think teams continued to race Donovans because they bought them 1'st.
I'm not sure when NHRA stopped racing TF at Div races, we quit racing TF when our sponsor got out of it when the oil shotage started in late 73.
Jon Hansen
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on February 03, 2019, 04:38:23 AM
426 wasnt that good until the learned to throw a bunch of timing into it.  2 things that hurt the Donovan, was that it was a small company machining the blocks by hand and could not keep up with the orders and the bottom end main caps were a one piece girdle and you had to drop (35 bolts) it to check even just one bearing. I was not because the Donovan was a bad engine, in fact, its 100# lighter and currently is the dominate engine used in Nostalgia Top Fuel running 5.50's @ 260mph. nobody in NTF has gotten a 426 to work, NFC can get the 426 to work because they get a 2speed

That's fascinating.  I never knew that about the 426.  Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?
Post by: ChevJerico on February 03, 2019, 04:53:46 AM
We ran a Donovan in Jerry's TF car in 73 , one problem we had was the Donovan's made bottom end power than the 426's, so we had traction issues.
I heard the same thing Bruce said 426's needed more timing [ more low end power]
And I think teams continued to race Donovans because they bought them 1'st.
I'm not sure when NHRA stopped racing TF at Div races, we quit racing TF when our sponsor got out of it when the oil shotage started in late 73.
Jon Hansen

That's pretty cool John.  I'm so glad you guys are keeping this type of racing alive.  Going to Bakersfield is probably my most favorite thing to do.  I need to learn the anatomy of a 600 injected alcohol 392.  I guess this book is highly recommended on the forums and a good starting place, but it's out of print.
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Chrysler-Hemi-Engine-Manual/dp/1878772015  I'll give you call one day this week.