FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Altereds => Topic started by: 32bantam on January 01, 2014, 07:19:22 AM
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NHRA has a new rule that says the struts for our wings can only be 6" long if mounted to the drivers pod!!!! That means most of the altered I've seen...mine included....won't pass muster. I NEED my wing..............so I have to do something.....
Classis Funny Car board has a topic on this issue.
So boys...put on your thinking caps
Steve Walczak
ss3raceteam@yahoo.com
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Steve sent you an Email
Luke
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As posted elsewhere, will the NHRA enforce this new rule on the Winged Express? My guess is there will be an exception made for whom ever the NHRA wants. Wouldn't this also effect the Rat Trap?
IHRA
AHRAmotorsports.com just saying.
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Just got off the Phone with Ken Gentry(NHRA Tech heritage liason), everyone put his on hold right now and let him handle it. More info to come later.
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Keep the forum updated please.
I have no wing.
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But wheelie bars could be next if going with their thinking :o
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But wheelie bars could be next if going with their thinking :o
I do have one of those.
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As of this time what people are running now will be LEGAL throughout the 2014 season, The rule which was brought to you by the regular NHRA chassie commitie(which has no interest in the cars we run) was not to go into effect until 2015 but was published by mistake. The section will be changed,give it a couple of days.
In the meantime , that gives us a year to get this out completely which I feel we can as long as the racers do their part----Dont crash and wind up with a peice of strut thru your head--- Thats not too much to ask for is it.
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Bruce,
You've got some serious pull....
Vince
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That is good news...for now! Hopefully they will ask the builders for a way to make our present wings legal and SAFE.
Steve
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That is good news...for now! Hopefully they will ask the builders for a way to make our present wings legal and SAFE.
Steve
Steve,
if you add $2000+ worth of roll cage shielding (as per T/F and F/C) they may let you stay with what you have. :)
Roo
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If that was the only way (2K worth of shielding) then I would have to see if the $ was an option or that is the straw that breaks the bank and we quit.
I was hoping we could add horizontal tube to the struts 1-2" above the cage mounts ....tying them together....basically making one strut that does not fit thru the cage.
Keep the suggestions coming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve Walczak
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I think that would be a proper fix..
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proper fix for what problem??
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After a visit with Roo today to check out the progress, we came up with the topic of the wing as hinging my body to flip up is going to be impossible. I called Rich Bowers who told me that they came up with this as a fix to keep the struts out of the cockpit. He informed me that a driver crashed and a strut came after him.
I think that depending on where the tabs are mounted, a horizontal bar welded across/between the lowest possible points of each set of struts...xxxx make it two bars per set. Drill the struts and run the horizontals thru and double weld them. Possibly a X brace in each set of struts to do the same thing and direct the strut away from the cage.
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I sense a new SFI spec on the way... or at least a proactive common practice, based on Tony's solution, it makes perfect sense to me. Sort of a chastity belt against struts trying to poke holes they shouldn't, deflected from the confines of the cage. As for the racer with the struts chasing him, did they catch him? Sure hope not.
John
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I'm going home from Florida this wed. 3/26. I have a new wing mount almost done. BUT I'm going to add tubing to each of the pair of struts to show what I'm suggesting as a viable solution. I will take pics and post so everyone can get a better understanding.
Steve
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Steve sent me these photos of his new additions....I have forwarded them to Gibbs, Hullinger, Bowers, and Snead.
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1939782_695269593856723_1990336685_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1660672_695269590523390_216756126_n.jpg)
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Here's how Dave Benjamin did his new AA/FA. Sure looks the part, and no wing for the NHRA to mess with.
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If he had removed the rod ends, drilled two holes in the cross tube, slid it over and welded to the tube adapters anything sticking out would be shorter than the diameter of the roll cage tubing.
Steve sent me these photos of his new additions....I have forwarded them to Gibbs, Hullinger, Bowers, and Snead.
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1939782_695269593856723_1990336685_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1660672_695269590523390_216756126_n.jpg)
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If he had removed the rod ends, drilled two holes in the cross tube, slid it over and welded to the tube adapters anything sticking out would be shorter than the diameter of the roll cage tubing.Steve sent me these photos of his new additions....I have forwarded them to Gibbs, Hullinger, Bowers, and Snead.
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1939782_695269593856723_1990336685_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1660672_695269590523390_216756126_n.jpg)
BK...that is true....The ends are tapered so it would take more "fitting". They are allowing 6" so this was a quick way that most of the altereds could get done to be safe. Keep the ideas coming!!!!!!
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Dont laugh at the artwork...only so much you can accomplish with Paint.
Run the tubes straight up off the housing. Connect to the shoulder bar using the allocated amount of brackets and then bend the tubes back for a desired amount of rake.
This will allow the bodys to still flip up with minor cutting.
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any updates on this?i'm in process of building a taller cage on my car to give me morehead room;;too tight.unsafe for me to drive..anyway now be good time to remount wing the way they want them for 2015..
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You'll have to wait for the great and all knowing to walk down from the mountain top with the new rules.
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Thru NHRA contact Bob Blackwell .The issue was handed over to him
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so...does anyone know what we are doing with the wing on the roof of our cars
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Bruce is up to date on what's going on. Maybe he will chime in.
Copy and pasted from the 2014 NHRA rule amendments:
Beginning January 1 2015,all open wheel/body cars where rear wings are permitted the wing may be
fully mounted to the roll cage or frame structure only via plates and/or
short brackets; maximum 6-inches center-to-center between the upper
(wing tab) and lower (roll cage tab) bolts. Tube type or extended wing
stands are prohibited when mounting wings to any components of the
driver’s compartment of any SFI specification roll cage.
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I just went to NHRAracer.com and looked at the 2014 to 2015 rule changes as of 10/30/14 and I don't see any reference to the wing mount issue. Did they drop the rule? maybe next year?
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SECTION 11 GENERAL REGS, BODY:7,7:1 AIR FOILS, WINGS (PAGE 69)
Thats it---no changes, as was explained to me (this is a saftey committee ruleing and not the chassie committee) unless a SFI spec is written on the way the struts are mounted to the back of the car. That will not happen because even with a over-kill spec things can still happen and the racer will look for sombody to blame.
Its a grey area BUT---- If one were to make the struts a permanet welded fixture to the cage and not bolt on, one could argue that it is an extention of the roll cage and that constuction exceeds the MINIMUM specs for the cage itself since it is not removable. The thing that they are trying to get rid of is the bolt-on mounting method , because without a spec people are using too small of bolts-tabs(single shear)-heims and the tubing itself.
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probably just going to leave the wing off I guess....get your cameras out
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OK Bruce....I must be missing something here......
on NHRA racer.com
2014 Rule book sec20, body7.1 lists the new regs. (6" struts only)
2014 to 2015 amendments lists nothing pg31
2014 general regs. 12/11/2013 to 1/10/2014 lists the same paragraph as 2014 rule book (6 struts only).
So what exactly is NHRA telling us?
I don't have any issues here because I already remounted mine to fit the new rule. But I do have other racers asking me about this issue and I want to make sure of the facts.
Thanks,
Steve
ps I think Mike thinks the rule is 6" struts because he is taking his wing off.
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NHRA.com
NHRAracer.com
tech (rules)
2014 rule book amendments
page 25 paragraph in blue
Beginning January 1, 2015: For all open wheel/body cars where rear wings are permitted the wing may be fully mounted to the roll cage or frame structure only via plates and/or short brackets; maximum 6-inches center-to-center between the upper (wing tab) and lower (roll cage tab) bolts. Tube type or extended wing stands are prohibited when mounting wings to any components of the driver’s compartment of any SFI specification roll cage.
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I had a chassis guy tell me that he is leaving his wing and adding this(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a480/mwcoc/34516384-683-McKinney-Titanium-Roll-Cage-Shield_zps926a2c82.jpg) (http://s1039.photobucket.com/user/mwcoc/media/34516384-683-McKinney-Titanium-Roll-Cage-Shield_zps926a2c82.jpg.html)
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I asked Blackwell about shrouds, His explination was that some tracks did not have the equipment (the Safety Safari has) to remove the cage with the shrouding attached, and that could lead to a liability issue if it ever came into play. If the racer wasnt so lawsuit happy, you would not hear from the NHRA at all and the rule book would be about 15 pages
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Now I understand !!!!!! LOL
Thanks Bruce for the info.
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I asked Blackwell about shrouds, His explination was that some tracks did not have the equipment (the Safety Safari has) to remove the cage with the shrouding attached, and that could lead to a liability issue if it ever came into play. If the racer wasnt so lawsuit happy, you would not hear from the NHRA at all and the rule book would be about 15 pages
that makes sence
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Well the diagram from the NHRA is out. I can't upload the photo.
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Here it is, I know the image is cut-off but that's the way I got it:
(http://www.racing.conceptsengineering.com/images/wing.jpg)
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That's it
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Here it is, I know the image is cut-off but that's the way I got it:
(http://www.racing.conceptsengineering.com/images/wing.jpg)
hows that supposed to lever the car...the wing would have to be as big as my dinning room table for it to work the same as the one on car now
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Its going to force a lot of guys to rework their cars.
There are cars out there hauling the mail without wings.
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I do feel bad for people having to deal with this. Having said that, there is another acceptable method which is proven to work well in to the low 6's at over 240 MPH:
(http://www.mikesullivanracing.com/img/wing2.jpg)
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That's funny right there.
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Awesome!
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Its going to force a lot of guys to rework their cars.
There are cars out there hauling the mail without wings.
yes there is
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Racers will have to find a new place for their comp numbers
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Or just mount the wing as prescribed.
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So is it okay if wing is mounted to chassis like this?
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp217/airetexbruce/10511179_480476895420442_168270156684287692_n_zpsdc0871dc.jpg) (http://s413.photobucket.com/user/airetexbruce/media/10511179_480476895420442_168270156684287692_n_zpsdc0871dc.jpg.html)
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no
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Where is mounted on the actual chassis?
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I do not see how we will be able to open/roll back the bodies with this design.
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On our car we'll have to unbolt 4 bolts and pull the wing off to get the body off.
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I do not see how we will be able to open/roll back the bodies with this design.
you wont be able to
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The wing rule has been pulled and will not go into effect until 2016. Ive been told it is to give them more time to research mounting options. you can now find it in the 2015 rule amendments and it has the new date applied.
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Race safe you-all, and dont give them a reason to implement
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Mine is mounted to the frame above the rear end with a brace from roll cage to the main strut. The brace is too long but if I move it lower and shorten to less than 6 inches would it be legal? Assuming the rule was to take effect now it would not pass as is but could be easy to modify brace to less than 6 if that did it.
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp217/airetexbruce/IMAG1494_zps398f5d79.jpg) (http://s413.photobucket.com/user/airetexbruce/media/IMAG1494_zps398f5d79.jpg.html)
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All rules are interpeted and enforced by the person who is teching your car that day. If you replaced the short strut tube with a web plate, 2 bolts to the chassie and 2 bolts to the main strut, the chance of the support strut entering the cage is eliminated, thats the concern, besides since you built the thing how many times have you changed the strut angle at the track?
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All rules are interpeted and enforced by the person who is teching your car that day. If you replaced the short strut tube with a web plate, 2 bolts to the chassie and 2 bolts to the main strut, the chance of the support strut entering the cage is eliminated, thats the concern, besides since you built the thing how many times have you changed the strut angle at the track?
I am thinking of using a short plate or bar less than 6". I do not adjust strut bar anyway. There is a wing angle adjustment up top and I have changed it some in the past.