FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Drag Racing Discussions => Front Engine Dragsters => Topic started by: 1000hpJohn on January 19, 2017, 07:21:28 PM
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Hi all,
One day in my future I think I want to try a fed and a could use a little help. First off, after purchasing a chassis kit for x amount, what am I looking at to complete a build? I race an 8 sec. Elcamino so I know what it takes to race a door car and build one, oh do I know !!! Lol. I would transfer my BBC and glide to the digger, and I also have a sheet metal 9" I can build with. I can figure out tire/wheel pricing but how much can I expect to drop into one of these things? Front chassis will be open, no tin except around cockpit area like many. Looking for a ballpark price to build one. I'm thinking maybe close to 10k????? Biggest cost will be welding labor I'm sure...
It's not that I don't want to buy one already built, but can't get rid of my Elky for enough to cover the build or to buy a complete roller!!! :-\
This is a preliminary question to something that just might happen sooner than later....
Thanks for any help.
John
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John,
a lot depends on what comes with your "kit" package. Are you thinking of a tack welded chassis or a pile of bends and straight tubing. If you are capable of making a simple fixture to put it together something like the S & W kit ( www.swracecars.com/) is a good deal as it has most of the stuff that is unique to a front motor car in the package. David at Dragster Supply ( http://www.dragstersupply.com/Chassis_Kits.html) can also supply anything from a tubing kit to a welded chassis and I could do the same.
I tend to recommend against using a fabricated (sheetmetal) housing in a front motor car as in general they are bulky. Remember that your legs are going over the housing and all of those hard corners can get uncomfortable. I use Strange's H 1110 housing for that reason. It has more beam strength than a regular 9" but a lot less bulk than the sheetmetal units especially those that are designed for a symmetrical appearance and thus have excess material outboard of the center section on the right side.
The only really complicated part of the body is the seat--the sides are basically flat sheet and the cowl can be bent around large diameter pipe or the old standby argon bottle. All of the tabs and minor components --brake and gas pedals, chute mounts etc are readily available from multiple sources. A custom built fuel tank is nice but I have seen plenty of cars running the spun "Moon" style ones sold by Speedway Motors.
A good idea is to find someone running one locally and hang out with them at the races and in the shop and learn what you do and don't like.
Roo
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As usual, Roo is right on. If you want the satisfaction of completing your own car I recommend at the minimum you buy a welded chassis with rear end housing, motor plates and torsion bar or front axle. The reason I recommend this is that it gets you into a project with a much higher probability of getting finished. Very easy for a rookie builder to get discouraged on a scratch build. By the time you finish building out a welded chassis you'll still have a car that's distinctly yours.
As far as cost goes, take your 10k number and start adding in axles, brakes, center section, master cylinder, coupler etc. and you'll have a good idea where you're at.
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Awesome guys, thanks a ton for your input and knowledge. Want to adopt a son???? Lol
S&W was a kit I looked at too, ironic but as mentioned knowledgeable you are...
I figured I could start by buying one component at a time until I have whats needed to build one. I have new axles, alum. Strange third member, brakes and hats I can use. Need to change the gear set too unless a 4:30 ratio is useable????? So, looks like I will need steering components, gas pedal, headers, weight bar, front and rear wheels and tires, fuel tank, braided hose, brake m/c , pedal, seat, drive coupler, coupler shield for MY piece of mind! I will use my fuel system, MSD ignition, trans cooler, radiator with fan, wiring circuit board, shifter and cable, battery and all else electrical, parachute, cable and lever, belts. Have a Reid trans case so I'm good there, engine diaper. That should get a good start on things ;D. Then get some tin, paint, find a welder that does supreme welding and well, what else????? Lol...
Getting excited just typing all that stuff ;D ;D ;D.
I'd say I am well in my way to building it for 10k, but then again!!!!! Lol maybe not.
John
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It is a long way to a finished car but the satisfaction of that first run is something you will remember forever--sounds like you can do it! I agree the best start is welded chassis with a minimum rear housing mounted along with motor plate, front axles and pieces
Be sure and ask here before buying anything as we have already done the research--
Welcome!!!!
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the little stuff will be 1500.00 2000.00
it will add it up
things u should think about too
electric, gas, rods, making jigs etc.etc. on and on
150 to 200 just in bolts
but what do i know 8)
steve m.
time is all we have, when it's gone its GONE
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I built mine from a scratch kit from S and W race cars, i think it probably cost close to 15 than 10. Lots of things to consider your convertor wont work due to weight, all the little stuff that matters a lot and costs a lot. I built mine and if I did it again I would buy one and modify it to what i want.
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Not to argue cost others have stated. I started with bunch of straqight tube(not enough).Built most everything,took too long. Upside to very drug out build is I found bunch of good deals.
1500.00 gear set=600.00
1100 wheels=550
600 frt wheels= 275 with spindles
600.00 bell housing = 150 FED.ORG member
Just some examples
Last count I was at 8000.00 and ready to hit track will be another 1100 to 1200 ,650 of which is new slicks
Having motor sitting here before starting was huge as was having most of the equipment needed. Heck w/o motor being on hand I would probably not have started build,so actually it cost me money.LOL
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Well, I hit three numbers on a lotto ticket!!! ;D won $20. So that gets added in too lol.
You guys are correct, the little stuff will add up fast. Front axle parts, rework the converter...
Maybe I will just build a really fast go cart!!!!!! Lol
It's no wonder many guys have just backed out of continuing with racing!!! I was looking at an altered too but again, my junk won't bring in .25 on the dollar right now...lots of stuff for sale out there too.
I gotta finish my Elky off so I can race again...been 4 years since I was in the seat. Just about there...
Thanks again guys for your input and help, never had a friend that was as passionate about racing as I am.
Maybe I too should look into buying a good used fed. Got some money coming but not enough to start another project.
John
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A Good car will cost you--the no good cars that are too narrow for anyone to fit in the cockpit are the "deals" you see
If you go that route I expect a turn key ready to load and race safely will be in the $15K range
These cars used are like everything else--you get what you pay for IF you do your homework--if you just jump and buy one you can get really screwed
I will say that after bracket racing for over 25 years the first run I ever made in my FED wiped all that out and as long as I have a race car it will be a FED Period! It is like your first time--every time
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A Good car will cost you--the no good cars that are too narrow for anyone to fit in the cockpit are the "deals" you see
If you go that route I expect a turn key ready to load and race safely will be in the $15K range
These cars used are like everything else--you get what you pay for IF you do your homework--if you just jump and buy one you can get really screwed
I will say that after bracket racing for over 25 years the first run I ever made in my FED wiped all that out and as long as I have a race car it will be a FED Period! It is like your first time--every time
here is one of those no good cars
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For me the build is over half the fun and theres nothing like winning in a car that you built. For me racing means racing something you built and seeing how much you can get out of it.
I would build my car even if it cost more than buying a new turn key. Cost is relative to how fast you want it to be.
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I tell ya guys, you really know how to take the wind out of a guys sails!!!!!! Lol. I do understand what your all saying and (IF) I had the cash to build one, my welding skills with a tig torch are lacking and I wouldn't even consider trying to build a digger....a 1/25 scale model maybe :D. I will be doing some welding on my Elky soon, just small body panel stuff fire wall hole filling and such. I'm going to practice more with some pieces of moly tube and see how it goes. I can weld a stack of dimes with aluminum but who can't!!!! Steel just seems to piss me off sometimes as the heat is either too high, low, tip is acting up, tungsten keeps sticking to metal :P. Always something...it's a new Miller Diversion 180 and works well, just not on long constant welding. Little at a time and it works great....
I have a garage but things need to disappear so room could be made...
Again, thanks for all your input and wisdom. Wish I knew all of you more and lived closer to see how you build diggers...
When the time is right, I will be coming back to take you all up on your info and wisdom again. Until then, keep the wheels down and th goggles clean ;D
John
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Well...I say I built my car but...I did hire a professional welder since my life may depend on weld quality--did not even consider buying a TIG--can't see good enough to do that kind of work LOL
Please keep in touch with this crowd--once the new season starts you will get much more interesting reading
Again..welcome!!
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Here's a question for you all, should do a pole on this.
My main use would be bracket racing and maybe a nostalgia event or two. I would run my 505" BBC and it makes just about 900hp and 780+torque. So, big question is what length do I need??? 185", 200, 225 longer, shorter????? I myself would look into a 225". I like being stable, hence my choice of race car. 116" wheelbase and it works well but is heavy and runs big tire's.
Thoughts!!!!
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Your going to get a lot of different answers on this ! You won't go wrong with a 200 inch car !
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I figured that ;)
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A Good car will cost you--the no good cars that are too narrow for anyone to fit in the cockpit are the "deals" you see
If you go that route I expect a turn key ready to load and race safely will be in the $15K range
These cars used are like everything else--you get what you pay for IF you do your homework--if you just jump and buy one you can get really screwed
I will say that after bracket racing for over 25 years the first run I ever made in my FED wiped all that out and as long as I have a race car it will be a FED Period! It is like your first time--every time
here is one of those no good cars
very cool car hotrod--you know I was just talking about the Ebay --Racingjunk dogs that are old, thin, bent, rusty, unsafe, too narrow, welded by blind men etc not your sweet ride aiming to stay cool on here not step on any toes
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Wheelbase is more of a state of mind, the main rule is--shorter the car the wider the front axle is. I built my car at 193" only because I bought 2 lengths of 1 1/4 (longest I could find) and where they came together in front determined the wheelbase, If I wanted 200" I would of had to buy 4 lengths. The stability of chassis due to wheelbase is only brought up by people that spend all their time sitting in the stands. I have built cars with Fuel engines @ 100" wheelbases and up to 225", all seem to get down the track just fine
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MY 2 cents on WB is I would think with your BBC, 900 HP you may want the 225" to help keep the front end down, with less lead on the nose.
If you are still thinking of buying a used FED so you could start racing sooner, I know of at least 2 Neil & Parks designed cars for sale, one in Northen Calif, and another in Lake Charles, LA. To help you I need to know your height and weight to better fit you into a car with-in your buget.
Because of my dragster wheel biz, I talk to racers all over the country.
Jon Hansen, 800-624-3803
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MY 2 cents on WB is I would think with your BBC, 900 HP you may want the 225" to help keep the front end down, with less lead on the nose.
If you are still thinking of buying a used FED so you could start racing sooner, I know of at least 2 Neil & Parks designed cars for sale, one in Northen Calif, and another in Lake Charles, LA. To help you I need to know your height and weight to better fit you into a car with-in your buget.
Because of my dragster wheel biz, I talk to racers all over the country.
Jon Hansen, 800-624-3803
Pardon my language but xxxx!!!!! 225"= 18'9"!!!!!! :-\. Have to measure my Elky now and see if a 225"r would even fit in my trailer!!!!! Of course that is the wheel base, excluding half the distance of the front wheel forward(additional length needed there), and the very most rearward part of the frame/pushbar if needed/used and cockpit space, chute, so another what 3-4' there!!! So 23-24 feet would be needed for trailer space and that much digger might fit in my box trailer, Might!!! I got a 28' box. Would be tight and of course the single wheelie wheelie bar would HAVE to come off... my 4 wheeler won't fit if I go this route as well and my crew chief won't be happy about that!!!!! :'(
Am I right about the length or close!!!!!???
Iiiiiiii forgot to mention, I spray this engine of mine with giggle gas so add another 200-250horses worth of go power!!!! It takes 1030hp to get my tug boat rolling thru the beams at 8.70/156mph, but then again, the weight factor will kick in with the digger and no gas needed...lol
Any idea what an average et is with 900hp of BBC? In a 225"??? Say, 4:30 gears and ( I have no clue what to run on the rear as far as a tire and wheel package) but I have 14 x 32's on my Elky and want to go to 33x10.5W tire so I don't know if THAT tire would work. Need to know my max wheel width I guess to figure this all out, unless,,,YOU GUYS already know this info!!!!! Lol 8) 8) 8)
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mines going to be 225" and i started to think about the overall length as well. just glad the PO added on to the garage lol. i also have 28' trailer. i figure the front end of the fed will be to one side so the golf car can fit. that should be fine. can also put the geny behind the cart.
for 900hp the dreamwheel says 7.20's @ 1700lbs. here is a pretty cool calculator i just stubbled across. http://vexer.com/automotive-tools/1-4-mile-ET-HP-MPH-calculator
what did your door slammer weigh?
ty
dean
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When I built my car I went with 200" WB as that was all I could fit in my 28' trailer with my golf cart otherwise I would have built a 225" car
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My tug weighs or weighed 3525 with me in it... tripped the 60' beam on rear tires at 1.25.
When the thing launches, it dead hooks, the tires try to run over themselves, I feel the paddling of the rubber and right then I know I'm on a good pass ;D. Nothing like riding a wheelie 75 feet out while still eating!!!!! Lol. Finally got the car to do what I wanted, just took 200hp worth of nitrous lol.
It hopefully will weigh 3200 without me...
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I'm just in the beginning stage of this idea of having a fed. Time to slow down a bit, have fun and take some cash home again.... I will relist it for sale during this year again.
Thanks for your info guys, ;)
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1'st of all about your trailer, ya you will need to take the wheelie bar off to fit in the trailer, just like our 225" JF, that weighs 1450, with driver, and an all iron SBC injected on pure alky, running 7.0's at 188 to190 mph. I help crew on a A/ND, that they run Comp elim, again injected iron alky car that they put the car in backwards [ back of car toward the front of the trailer] , then move the front on the race car off to one side so they can fit a ATV quad next to the front end. They put the quad just inside the back door so they can unload it easy and load last. Neil & Parks has run 6.87 at 197 mph with their A/ND [ JF] 225" with a 387 ci iron SBC making 900-1000 hp weighing , with driver, 1365 lbs and running .967 sixty foot times.
I suggested 225 because of your BBC will make more torque than most SBC JF combo's, and it will try to bring your front end up. It's all about car balance.
Mike Chrisman, Art Chrisman's, son has a JrFueler with a 410 ci BBC that weighs over 1550 #,and has run 7.20's on injected alky, and I think he runs a 4.30 gear and JF rules limit tire to 12" and 12" wide wheels. Most JF cars are running the super light weight [ 22.5 lbs] Goodyear D2585, 31x12x15, good for tire growth. Light tires take less HP to spin, ie , one pound of rotating weight is equal to 9-10 lbs of static weight. the old saying is if you take 100 lbs off your car you will pick-up a tenth.
I have 31x12 and 33x12 GY's in stock, I had to special order them , because GY has these two sizes on an inactive list.
The two used Parks designed FED cars I mentioned are 225", that is the max limit for JF and other classes too. If you build or buy a 225" it will be easier to sell, when it's time.
Call if you have any questions, 805-444-4489, cell
Jon
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3-4 yrs ago i started to build a FED theres even some pics in the build section, between working on customers stuff and other things life throw at you it never got finished..i actually cut the frame up becuase there where things i could have done better.... and i took the parts i had and had david beard put together a chassis for me last year, unless you have the time building one is great, years ago i also purchased a sw kit that i got halfway together and then sold becuase of lack of time. the kit was nice , but i personally think if you have a local source for tubing you could maybe save some coin by buying the bends you need from a shop that does bending to fit your needs and do it that way..... there prints are top notch and supplemented with the SFI prints you will have no problem building a spec chassis...... i am very happy with the chassis i got from david top notch fab work at a reasonable price....as others mentioned there is alot that goes into it and it really does not cost that much to just have a frame built
here is mine as it sits with wheels etc, no 3rd member, floater rear, there is about 13k into it....225" wheelbase.
(http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/tedsfab/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161125_083411147_zpsrud5xwke.jpg) (http://s472.photobucket.com/user/tedsfab/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161125_083411147_zpsrud5xwke.jpg.html)
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Regarding wheelbase, I remember reading an interview with a crew chief of a TF team where he stated they would go for a wheelbase longer than 300 inches if rules allowed it.
Also, given the stickier tires/tracks these days, the engine needs to be located more forward than those bitchin' looking diggers from the past. It's just aesthetics, but a short wheelbase FED with the engine in the middle of the car looks a little weird to me.
I wished my car was longer than 173" (which would require a longer trailer than my current 24-footer).
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3-4 yrs ago i started to build a FED theres even some pics in the build section, between working on customers stuff and other things life throw at you it never got finished..i actually cut the frame up becuase there where things i could have done better.... and i took the parts i had and had david beard put together a chassis for me last year, unless you have the time building one is great, years ago i also purchased a sw kit that i got halfway together and then sold becuase of lack of time. the kit was nice , but i personally think if you have a local source for tubing you could maybe save some coin by buying the bends you need from a shop that does bending to fit your needs and do it that way..... there prints are top notch and supplemented with the SFI prints you will have no problem building a spec chassis...... i am very happy with the chassis i got from david top notch fab work at a reasonable price....as others mentioned there is alot that goes into it and it really does not cost that much to just have a frame built
here is mine as it sits with wheels etc, no 3rd member, floater rear, there is about 13k into it....225" wheelbase.
(http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr81/tedsfab/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161125_083411147_zpsrud5xwke.jpg) (http://s472.photobucket.com/user/tedsfab/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161125_083411147_zpsrud5xwke.jpg.html)
THAT is the EXACT look of a digger I would want to drive right there!insert thumbs up emoticon here lol
THANKS a ton for your info again guys, just priceless info to me insert smiley face here lol.
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That's a dragster supply car. I bought mine from David too. Super nice guy, and I'm more than happy with my car.
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Here see if this will help. Build your own nostalgia dragster from this drawing by Roger Lee of Jim Brissette's BB/FD that went 7.20 @ 224 MPH. The car was originally built in 1964.
This drawing was on the wall at Don "The Wavemaker" Prieto's shop in Torrance, CA. I took this photo a couple of years ago while there for the United States Food & Gas Nationals
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3-4 yrs ago i started to build a FED theres even some pics in the build section, between working on customers stuff and other things life throw at you it never got finished..i actually cut the frame up becuase there where things i could have done better.... and i took the parts i had and had david beard put together a chassis for me last year, unless you have the time building one is great, years ago i also purchased a sw kit that i got halfway together and then sold becuase of lack of time. the kit was nice , but i personally think if you have a local source for tubing you could maybe save some coin by buying the bends you need from a shop that does bending to fit your needs and do it that way..... there prints are top notch and supplemented with the SFI prints you will have no problem building a spec chassis...... i am very happy with the chassis i got from david top notch fab work at a reasonable price....as others mentioned there is alot that goes into it and it really does not cost that much to just have a frame built
here is mine as it sits with wheels etc, no 3rd member, floater rear, there is about 13k into it....225" wheelbase.
dig your car and love the 'V' series wheels, i was wanting to do polished alum 'V' in front but opted for traditional spokes to save little money. having floater setup, those wheels, etc and 13k is smokin deal.
dean
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Oh man that is too cool, THANKS a bunch Glofria 8)
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So, does $13-1500. Seem about the cost for most of the steering components minus that long steering linkage bar running down the side??? Didn't price out a butterfly wheel yet. Also, are you guys all crunched in the cage to where you have to exhale to drive down range???? Lol some drivers look real uncomfortable to me, and others don't....I myself would like a little distance from me to the wheel and have my arms extended a little. Is that a normal question or do I just bite the bullet like the rest of you all??? Lol
How do I know what type of axle to get? Doesn't need to look period correct, close but if I bracket race it, repeatability is key there.... what about an A-arm package??? Just asking....... ::). I can see this escalating right out of control :-\....
I looked at the Dragster Supply site and really like there welded kit they offer, but of course many things need to be added. I think you guys are all correct, $10k is dream fed, a real one is closer to $15-20k...
Once again reality sets in. I will see how this season goes, never know, just might win a big dollar bracket race or a bunch of small ones for payouts!!!!
John
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with my car as follows is about 15k. chassis w/ front spindles, all steering linkage, steering box, butter fly wheel, parachute (2) mounts and handles, motor mount/plate, brake handle, m/c, pedal, N&P shifter, seat, shorty body, front wing, fuel tank, milter bros housing, strange axles, brake, third member, drive shaft and couplers.
i have new front wheels, picked up some used rears that are new but never used, purchased trans and am at 20-21k. need to get chutes, fire bottles, belts, and misc things so figure ill be about 24-25k into it rolling.. less electronics and motor/fuel system.
as was eluded too earlier, i could of saved and purchased a used car but i would not of fit as im 6'4" and shoulders are about 21" wide. i have seen a lot of cars out there with narrower (19") shoulder widths. if i would of purchased a car as roller, how much money would it of cost me to have it modified assuming the shoulder width was acceptable. further, the chassis im getting is built to 2.2C standards. in the end, the base money spent for the chassis as comparable roller price isnt that much more and it is built to ME and is new. i could of saved prob 1,500.00 by buying one chute, smaller axles, third member, etc... also, when i go to sell it, the car will have a higher resale value even though it doesn't matter what car you build, youll never get out of it what you have in it... thats just part of the game.
dean
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Here see if this will help. Build your own nostalgia dragster from this drawing by Roger Lee of Jim Brissette's BB/FD that went 7.20 @ 224 MPH. The car was originally built in 1964.
This drawing was on the wall at Don "The Wavemaker" Prieto's shop in Torrance, CA. I took this photo a couple of years ago while there for the United States Food & Gas Nationals
Not a real good idea to copy that design. Apart from the fact that it will not come even close to passing tech the motor is only 20" out meaning that there is no place for any sort of transmission and also that a LOT of ballast would be required up front to stop it from wheelstanding even with a slider clutch. The design is from the mid 60's, prior to grippy tires and sticky start lines. Cool as a cackle car but that is about all.
Roo
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" Also, are you guys all crunched in the cage to where you have to exhale to drive down range???? Lol some drivers look real uncomfortable to me, and others don't....I myself would like a little distance from me to the wheel and have my arms extended a little. Is that a normal question or do I just bite the bullet like the rest of you all??? Lol"
John,
the drivers who look uncomfortable are usually in a car that was built for someone else (usually of a different size). One thing to watch for is the shoulder hoop configuration. As seen in the blueprint posted by Gino, the early cars had a single bend shoulder hoop and that tends to push the driver's shoulders forward as the belts pull him back into the seat. That can make it hard to breathe as evidenced by one of my customers who has a car that was built from an old ) mid 60's) Speed Improvements kit. Don Long figured the problem out fairly early and started making the shoulder hoop with a flat between 6" radius bends rather than the constant (approx 9-10") radius deal.
I build all of my cars to suit the driver (and engine/drive line combo) and put the wheel, pedals etc in the position that they are most comfortable with. I also generally make some recommendations as what feels right in the shop sometimes does not work on the track.
Roo
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One thing to remember about fitting car and driver. Drivers equipment.Suit and helmet have huge effect of how car feels.You need to be comfortable when in car.Its not a recliner, but it should not be torture test either. Especailly true if you're bracket racing it.As I am sure you know today's brackets require .00x light and about the same on dial in. Can not kill tree if your feeling cramped and not 100% focused on light.
If you are not comfortable with your own building skills a call to chassis builder like Rooman,Bruce or Neil and Parks might not be bad investment. IO know Parks will help you a ton of phone and Rooman can advise you here as Bruce can also.
Cheaper to right first time!
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building a car quickly is expensive and much cheaper over time, but time has a way of interfering progress.
If you budget high $20/$25 and come out way under cost you win and go racing with money left over, If you budget low $10/$15 and run out of money you lose, not only being able to race, but without being able to fund the rest of the build and are forced to sell to recoupe investment, your return is only .30 on the $$'s spent.
Look at used cars for sale, have the sellers send plenty of body off pictures including the SFI cert tag on the chassis(does not have to be current cert) or take plenty of pics yourself and post them here, Both Roo and Myself will take the time to veiw them to give you an honest accesment before you buy or will tell you to walk away
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I bought a used '68 from cali 6yrs ago. it is 192". the guy pulled the engine and left everything else in the sale. all I had to do was make a new engine plate because I run a small block buick in it and go racing. it cost me $4900 w/shipping from cali to ct. by springtime we were racing. getting a life history of it is another story. for me, a used car was the best deal. don't regret it all. like others said, the older ones have a 19" cage. it was ok in the beginning, but my son needs to go on a diet. ;D
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That blueprint is the little brother to the '69 Woody Gilmore car that I had, 165" with a cut down coupler and a shorty Glide. Yep, engine way back, fuel and battery way out front, no need for big heavy slicks, let go of the tranny brake and HOLD ON! If you build or buy a car, best bet is to know what you will fit in. Put on your firesuit and helmet, sit against the wall, holding a 10" frying pan in front of you at shoulder level. Have somebody measure from the floor to 2" above the helmet, the width of your shoulders, from the wall to the frying pan, from the center of your arm at the shoulder to the floor. Those are the numbers you need to know if you will fit in the car or not.
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If you like a sheet metal rearend, Neil and Parks has one that is very compact and light, and you can get it pre-welded or weld it yourself, comes it chrome-moly or titanium for the weight concerned folks.
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" Also, are you guys all crunched in the cage to where you have to exhale to drive down range???? Lol some drivers look real uncomfortable to me, and others don't....I myself would like a little distance from me to the wheel and have my arms extended a little. Is that a normal question or do I just bite the bullet like the rest of you all??? Lol"
John,
the drivers who look uncomfortable are usually in a car that was built for someone else (usually of a different size). One thing to watch for is the shoulder hoop configuration. As seen in the blueprint posted by Gino, the early cars had a single bend shoulder hoop and that tends to push the driver's shoulders forward as the belts pull him back into the seat. That can make it hard to breathe as evidenced by one of my customers who has a car that was built from an old ) mid 60's) Speed Improvements kit. Don Long figured the problem out fairly early and started making the shoulder hoop with a flat between 6" radius bends rather than the constant (approx 9-10") radius deal.
I build all of my cars to suit the driver (and engine/drive line combo) and put the wheel, pedals etc in the position that they are most comfortable with. I also generally make some recommendations as what feels right in the shop sometimes does not work on the track.
Roo
Hi Mr. Roo,
Now that is one thing I wouldn't have known to even look for!!!! And now that picture becomes crystal clear on that part of the cage...thanks a bunch. I'm approx. 21" wide at my shoulders, ex bodybuilder and getting back into it prior to and after my hand surgery for Carpel Tunnel release...so they will be growing again ;D
Finding a good shop that works on these monsters and trust worthy are rare to find in one place around here in Detroit area. Just got a lead on a shop a few hours from here and they build nostalgia diggers and f/c's so I will look into them in future. Guy at work works on a nostalgia funny car (The Parts Peddler) and he even sold me parts at one time a few years back...so I am starting to find key people for this build idea. Met this guy a week ago too!! Lol go figure...
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building a car quickly is expensive and much cheaper over time, but time has a way of interfering progress.
If you budget high $20/$25 and come out way under cost you win and go racing with money left over, If you budget low $10/$15 and run out of money you lose, not only being able to race, but without being able to fund the rest of the build and are forced to sell to recoupe investment, your return is only .30 on the $$'s spent.
Look at used cars for sale, have the sellers send plenty of body off pictures including the SFI cert tag on the chassis(does not have to be current cert) or take plenty of pics yourself and post them here, Both Roo and Myself will take the time to veiw them to give you an honest accesment before you buy or will tell you to walk away
Dre,
Thanks for your info, and that is what kind grows on me is the life issues that we all deal with as we get older. I hope to start this project and see it thru, but....
I appreciate the help on the used chassis search if I go that route.
I will need to find a small fortune to do this or hit the lotto and pay off both of my new cars!!!! Need to see how this season plays out for my team, that'll will tell my future one way or another.
Thanks again for your support.
John
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with my car as follows is about 15k. chassis w/ front spindles, all steering linkage, steering box, butter fly wheel, parachute (2) mounts and handles, motor mount/plate, brake handle, m/c, pedal, N&P shifter, seat, shorty body, front wing, fuel tank, milter bros housing, strange axles, brake, third member, drive shaft and couplers.
i have new front wheels, picked up some used rears that are new but never used, purchased trans and am at 20-21k. need to get chutes, fire bottles, belts, and misc things so figure ill be about 24-25k into it rolling.. less electronics and motor/fuel system.
as was eluded too earlier, i could of saved and purchased a used car but i would not of fit as im 6'4" and shoulders are about 21" wide. i have seen a lot of cars out there with narrower (19") shoulder widths. if i would of purchased a car as roller, how much money would it of cost me to have it modified assuming the shoulder width was acceptable. further, the chassis im getting is built to 2.2C standards. in the end, the base money spent for the chassis as comparable roller price isnt that much more and it is built to ME and is new. i could of saved prob 1,500.00 by buying one chute, smaller axles, third member, etc... also, when i go to sell it, the car will have a higher resale value even though it doesn't matter what car you build, youll never get out of it what you have in it... thats just part of the game.
dean
Dean,
Thanks for all this info., just priceless to me(insert thumbs up here) lol
My wife and I are looking into having a house built, and if she gets what SHE wants so do I ;D. This would produce a big garage to do this build. Will get me some metal and make a long flat and straight table and level it off and go from there. THAT would help me very much and I can have a friend of mine come over and do some welding for me... once I get the sfi info and prints from who ever I will get the chassis from I can go from there and start buying pipe. I will most likely contact you all here before I build the upper cage for me fat bunn...I need to get this whole project right or I will loose interest as mentioned. I have learned patience over the last 3 years let me tell ya. I am aware of the ROI on this stuff, kind of stinks too but...is what it is. As I look at diggers, I will be looking very hard at them.
Until then, I will start buying a few things here and there and ask Q's as I go down the road...
Thanks again for offering YOUR info.
John
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If you like a sheet metal rearend, Neil and Parks has one that is very compact and light, and you can get it pre-welded or weld it yourself, comes it chrome-moly or titanium for the weight concerned folks.
I have all the parts to build my sheet metal rear axle, Rick Jones 9" fabbed hsg., strange alum. Pig with 4:30 gear set, rear housing support, bearing ends, axles, brake hats, studs and brake calipers. I got the engine and trans as well.
Here is a question, what dictates the tail end of the trans length? Power to weight, balance, distance out from axle c/l for proper transfer, length of the frame and or wheelbase???? Have seen some with mini u joints and some with couplers, so which is needed for a 1000+hp? Either way there will be a shaft loop can between my legs. Trans is a Reid case with liner and engine has a diaper already. Need to check the sfi rules on my fire suit, as it is for a door car and not sure if it will transfer over or not. Got shoes too.
I will measure my center housing area and toss the dimensions on here and maybe someone can tell me if it will be too wide to use.
I have all the main heavy parts that's for sure and I'm not really worried how much it weighs when completed, can always throw more power at it!!! ;D
Next!!! Lol
John
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John,
a lot of back motor cars use a shorty glide to get the motor as far back as possible but with a front motor car with the sort of power you have the motor should be far enough out to allow you to use a regular tail housing.
As the driveshaft will be right between your legs the coupler package is a lot better idea than a u-jointed shaft--noting to fly apart and less rotating inertia.
If you are going to use a fabricated style housing the RJ version is one of the better ones for a FED. It is still a bit bulky but not as bad as the Moser unit which is designed to have a symmetrical appearance with the pinion centered and as such is wider than need be on the right side. If you run a hand brake or mount the shifter on the right side top rail things can get a little cramped on that side. In most cars I use the Strange H1110 series housing as it is small with no sharp corners and has a factory Ford style "derby" cover on the back side. It is plenty strong as Brendan Murry has had one (unbraced) in his NT/F car since 2009 with no issues.
Roo
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Roo,
Thanks so much on this info and I agree on the rotating mass and less parts comment. I'm all about less mass spinning. ;D. I like the small tire therory too... 8). I figured that regardless how the axle hsg. Was, it is just the nature of the beast deal... think I could mount a JOYSTICK for a steering wheel in case I sell it to a kid 30yrs. Younger than me???? Lol, would be cool to see that a!!!
Would a back brace really be in the way of driver or the seat placement? I have a two pc. brace that came with it..
Getting more pumped now as I showed my crewchief the dragster I am interested in building and she said "why are you still working on the Elky than?" Now THATS the kind of crew chief we all need right? ;D. I'm a very lucky man to have her...
Another question, the chute I have for my 3500lb. Tug boat with me in it is a soft deploy and I really really like it, I am sure Shroud would sell me a completely different one for a FED, so would I be correct to assume this???
Question about seat belts, would my current belts adapt to a digger chassis? No cam release but very new belts...
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If you are interested, I have a Dave Tuttle 9" Ford , with support, FED Rear-end housing, call me 805-444-4489, if you want photos and measurements.
Jon
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I got all the rear axle parts Jon, just waiting for summer to get by then I think the project will begin...
John
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smokin deal right here if youll fit. http://www.racingjunk.com/Dragsters/182838796/Dave-Uyehara-225-Front-Motored-Dragster.html
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Dog gonnit, I bet I would fit right into that!!!!! Need to ask of course.
Why the heck does it have to be in Calif.????? I can't go get it, would take me a whole week to get it!!!
I wish you hadn't a told me this :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
I never get the good deals..... :-\. I could find $1500. Too but the cost to get it....too much for me.
Everything would have to be a perfect fit to get it.
Thanks for posting this too. ;)
John
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John, I know that car, I have seen it run and win, it was Bill Wayne's AF car, and ya I've seen it run 6.22. I think you Will fit into the car.
What you might do is fly out to the March Meet 3-2 -17, in Bakersfield, watch the races and look over/ sit in the car. Then figure a way to get it to you, some racers will be going your way, and maybe hitch a ride to get it most of the way. But I would call soon, $5k is a real good Deal, and March meet is a month away.
The reason this car is for sale is Bill sold the car, and the new owner, wanted a different engine location. Dave builds real good cars. My guess when new it was over $25k.
Just call !
Jon
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BTW, John, the car was set-up for a Alan Johnson blown Chevy.
Good Luck,
Jon
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Jon,
Can't say thanks enough to ya...the travel deal is just not in the budget, but I will call and talk to him if I can. If I spend my cash for plane ticket and it doesn't work out, I'm out the plane fair that could get my Elky going this year!!! I know, I know, priorities right? Lol. The digger will just have to go on hold until this season is over.
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Jon,
What's the closest airport to the track? Bakersfield Municipal or Meadows field?
Gears are turning!!! Lol
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Smokin is not the word for that deal. Heck 15 years ago I would bo on the way to airport.Travel is the killer for me also.Even have someone who said heck he would go half on it. Hate it when you see a deal and can't go pick it up.
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John, you would want Bakersfield Municipal, Meadows, I think, is a private air plane airport, but I suspect not the cheapest. I think the cheaper airfares would be Los Angles [ LAX] even after you rent a car to drive the 2 hours to the track. What you might also do is call the guy that has the car, and maybe he could pick you up at the airport, then you have no car rental expense.
Another airport to check is Fresno, about 1 1/2 hour north of the track.
Jon
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I just got off the phone with $5k car guy, and Sorry, it's sold to a guy in Texas, paid for but not picked up yet, he bought it site-un-seen.
Jon
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Smokin is not the word for that deal. Heck 15 years ago I would bo on the way to airport.Travel is the killer for me also.Even have someone who said heck he would go half on it. Hate it when you see a deal and can't go pick it up.
Story of my life!!!! Day late, dollar short!!!!! :-\.
I really need to work the crew chief to work this out.....
I planted the seed with the gentleman, asked if the chassis was heading East at all...
Jon, do you know if this chassis travels outside CA.???
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There's proof right there!!!!! Lol. Oh well, good for him...
Better send him a message again....
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John , like I posted it was sold to a guy in Texas, that is going to put a blown SBC and race the SHRA, 1/8 mile races mostly in Texas. Rick Ewen's new car will race at Tulsa in Sept.
He might race the Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green.
I'll keep me eyes open for more FED. One of the FED I posted earlier is a complet car , no engine or trans, light weight and good motor location for your combo for $10k.
It's also in Calif.
Jon
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Ok Jon thanks a bunch...
Pm sent.
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thats the deal of the year
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Yep deal for sure. They do happen... ;D ;D ;D