Messages

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Matt Shaff's Engine Shop / Re: What's a typical 392 Hemi build look like to run 8.60 in a FED or Altered?

« on: February 19, 2019, 05:42:55 AM »

I agree, to build a "Cool car " will no doubt cost more, lots of SBC parts out there.
We run NHRA Heritage JrFuel on the west coast and have won Championship with SBC and early all iron Hemi. Rules are heads and block must be iron.
We have run 7.0's to 7.20's at 185-189 mph with our Gene Adams orginally built 354 block [ lighter/stronger than 392] and 331 heads at 409 ci engine, rule limit was 410 ci, not its 430ci.
We broke a block in 2012, and it was tuff finding a good sonic tested machineable block. After maching we filled the block with epoxy , at Gene's suggestion, but it ran about 2 tenths slower, we and Gene could not figure it out because we only chaged the block, no other combo change. We discovered on the the second race that we had scuffed pistons, not in the skirt area bur in the wrist pin area
Our machine shop ran into a filled block problem before. Well it turned out the block was squzing the cyclinders, because when we raced it heated up and caused the epoxy to expand . So we put it in an oven until it stopped changing the bore size, then bored it again to get new pistons to fit.
BTW this is an all iron motor with stack injectors, zoomies, and a powerglide burning pure alky, in a 1480 lb FED with driver. We shift around 9200 and we have shifed at 9800, no breakage but I don't recommend that high. We run 31x12x15 Goodyears on 11 or 12" rims and 4.56 rear gears and a 1.69 first gear, with 7" converter,  stalling at 7900 to 8400 rpm.
So now that I've given you all my secret combo, Good luck with your project. If you want to see us run the Hemi and hang-out with us, we are racing the 2019 March Meet next month, in Bakersfield Ca.
 Cheers , Jon at Hayden Wheels 800-624-3803
I thought I would let you know what you might be up for.

Shoot Jon, I wish.  There are two things I look forward to more then anything.  Going to the MM, and CHRR.  This year we will be in Floridia for the Gatornationals.  Going to visit with family, and take my brother to the races.  I'd rather be at the MM!  Would love to come by and check you guys out. I'll take a rain check.  I love your dragster.  As cool as it gets in my opinion!  I definitely don't plan to run at that level, but would love to learn about your car!

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Matt Shaff's Engine Shop / Re: What's a typical 392 Hemi build look like to run 8.60 in a FED or Altered?

« on: February 19, 2019, 04:59:00 AM »

Next question would be are you after coolness or functionality and more cost effective?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10215584061893239&set=gm.705300886471361&type=3&theater&ifg=1

Cool factor, I already have a SBC in my Chevelle and building a BBC for it now.  If it's just not feasible to run a Hemi then I'll go Chevy and make it look period.  I'm not looking to lean on it.  I'm somewhere in between a cackle guy and a serious racer.  More towards the racer.

Link didn't work?

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Matt Shaff's Engine Shop / Re: What's a typical 392 Hemi build look like to run 8.60 in a FED or Altered?

« on: February 19, 2019, 04:36:34 AM »

I have a friend - Racin' Jacin Barnes - of Wycliffe Ohio, who decided to build himself his first real race car. He decided on a front engine digger with a blown hemi. Of course, a logical "first race car". Not. Anyhow, the car turned out beautifully. He did a great job on it, all himself - chassis, body, engine etc. But he decided to hedge his bets and instead of bolting on the blower and injectors he just mounted a set of Hilborns to the 392 8.0:1 long block. He runs low nines with it on pump gas and has had such a ball running it he has no immediate plans to bolt up the blower setup sitting on his workbench.

Must be one cool guy if he's from Ohio

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Matt Shaff's Engine Shop / Re: What's a typical 392 Hemi build look like to run 8.60 in a FED or Altered?

« on: February 18, 2019, 11:01:27 AM »

I think  the first question to be asked is can you find any components like heads, blocks and cranks that are usable?

There is an A1 block local standard bore, that has minimum rust, and a set of 555 heads, and a standard crank.  Two different guys.  One has a block with 4 bolt main conversion with low miles.  He wants 2K for that.  I'm just looking right now.

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Matt Shaff's Engine Shop / Re: What's a typical 392 Hemi build look like to run 8.60 in a FED or Altered?

« on: February 18, 2019, 10:57:51 AM »

Two sites to read are
https://myth-racing.com/tech-talk/  (this site is often down)
And Alky diggers article by Gene Adams.
This is very doable, but you may feel like a salmon swimming against the flow of sbc,bbc .

The myth website is an amazing read!  Thanks again.  Exactly what I was looking for.

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Matt Shaff's Engine Shop / Re: What's a typical 392 Hemi build look like to run 8.60 in a FED or Altered?

« on: February 12, 2019, 05:23:08 AM »

Two sites to read are
https://myth-racing.com/tech-talk/  (this site is often down)
And Alky diggers article by Gene Adams.
This is very doable, but you may feel like a salmon swimming against the flow of sbc,bbc .

Cool, I've read the Gene Adams article.  I'll check out the other.  Wow that's good stuff.  Glad you told me about it

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Matt Shaff's Engine Shop / What's a typical 392 Hemi build look like to run 8.60 in a FED or Altered?

« on: February 12, 2019, 04:05:24 AM »

I'd like to step up and run Nostalgia Eliminator, I can build SBC, BBC, but would love to have the cool factor of a Hemi.  Build something that looks vintage.   I go to many nostalgia races, but this year I plan on networking more and picking racers brains.  See what I can learn.  I'm not jumping into anything.  Figured I'd start out and build an engine mainly for the fun factor.  Then find a roller.

What's a typical 600HP 392 build look like?  I know many are injected on alcohol.  Can you do it with stock rockers, and the smallish cams that go with them?  Buy taller stands maybe for more lift?  What valve sizes are most common if bigger then stock?  Maybe just put a 6-71 on a simpler build?  Looking for smart builds, not cubic dollar builds.  Safe reliable low RPM power.

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Altereds / Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?

« on: February 03, 2019, 04:53:46 AM »

We ran a Donovan in Jerry's TF car in 73 , one problem we had was the Donovan's made bottom end power than the 426's, so we had traction issues.
I heard the same thing Bruce said 426's needed more timing [ more low end power]
And I think teams continued to race Donovans because they bought them 1'st.
I'm not sure when NHRA stopped racing TF at Div races, we quit racing TF when our sponsor got out of it when the oil shotage started in late 73.
Jon Hansen

That's pretty cool John.  I'm so glad you guys are keeping this type of racing alive.  Going to Bakersfield is probably my most favorite thing to do.  I need to learn the anatomy of a 600 injected alcohol 392.  I guess this book is highly recommended on the forums and a good starting place, but it's out of print.
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Chrysler-Hemi-Engine-Manual/dp/1878772015  I'll give you call one day this week.

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Altereds / Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?

« on: February 03, 2019, 04:38:23 AM »

426 wasnt that good until the learned to throw a bunch of timing into it.  2 things that hurt the Donovan, was that it was a small company machining the blocks by hand and could not keep up with the orders and the bottom end main caps were a one piece girdle and you had to drop (35 bolts) it to check even just one bearing. I was not because the Donovan was a bad engine, in fact, its 100# lighter and currently is the dominate engine used in Nostalgia Top Fuel running 5.50's @ 260mph. nobody in NTF has gotten a 426 to work, NFC can get the 426 to work because they get a 2speed

That's fascinating.  I never knew that about the 426.  Thanks for the info!

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Altereds / Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?

« on: January 30, 2019, 06:02:47 AM »

My Wisconsin partner and I raced The Gators in 1969-71, and the 1'st time I drove Jerry Newmans RED Top Fuel dragster which we ended up Div 3 TF Champion. The 69 race we raced our BBC BB/GD, which we won at the 69 U.S. Nationals, and at the 70 & 71 race we ran our dual BBC Top Gas dragster. Too Bad NHRA eliminated TG after 71, but we still raced our TG car at match races in 72, including at Jacksonville FL.  Connie Swingle invited us over to Big's shop so we could fix our chassis. We liked GatorNationals  track and event.

That's some cool history.  Didn't know they had TF at divisionals.  Are you guys going to the CHRR this year?  On a side note I was reading about the Donovan engine.  Why did people race them even after the 426 came out?  When did Donovan's become obsolete for the big show?

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Altereds / Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?

« on: January 29, 2019, 07:23:24 AM »

Here is some info on another combination, one of the egines we run in our all iron early 310 ci [ limit at time it was built] pure alky burning Hemi racing in NHRA Heritage JrFuel , we chose the 354 block, because Gene Adams said it is stronger, and 331 heads, because it's alittle lighter, and the port shapes are good for OEM head , plus you don't have to weld up the heat riser in the head. we use a block filler to help make the block stronger , TI valves and Rocker Arm Specialties 1.8 ratio on the intakes, for one reason because the Hemi has a limit on cam size so we make it up on ratio, custom billet piston, because burning alky works better with as high compression as possible , not too common since so many Hemis are super charged, but JF rules are stack injectors. On a dyno we made 873hp and in our 225 wb dragster with Power Glide with a 7" converter stall at 8300, and shifting at 91-9200 in our 1485 lb car with driver. OH ya the slick limit is 12" on 12" wide rims. We won a JF Championship with this combo running the best at 7.02@187 mph.   
I know this not what you are looking for, but I thought I'd give you something to think about.
Come to the March Meet and watch us run the Hemi
Call if you want more info 805-444-4489, cell

Hey Jon, man that's some crazy power out of that small mill at 9200 .  I need to pay a little more attention to JF.  I didn't know you guys were running all iron combinations. I remember mention of heads by the announcer a few years back.  I've probably seen you guys run a couple times.  We are going to miss the MM this year, but will make the CHRR.  We are going to Florida to find a place to live, and see if we like it.  We will be taking my older brother to the Gatornationals.  Big Daddy is going to be there, so we are excited about that.  We toured Big's museum last September.  Plus we are going to hit up the NMCA street machine nationals at Bradenton.  The hardest part for me and leaving California would be leaving the Nostalgia scene, but we will fly out for the MM, and CHHR.  Could be a year or two before we make the move.

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Altereds / Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?

« on: January 28, 2019, 09:18:05 AM »

weight divided ET3 ( et x et x et) X 197.14

 So if the car weighs   1750# / 636 ( 8.60 ET3)  =  2.75
 2.75 x 197.14  =  542 HP

I believe that would be the HP delivered at the rear wheels. So if you add 10% for the drivetrain losses - say, 55 HP - you get around 600 HP at the crankshaft, as you surmised.

As a frame of reference my 1800# six cylinder S/Pro (car and driver) has gone 9.00@147 (5.60 eighth) and puts 487 HP to the ground, or about 540 HP at the crank.

Thanks FF, nice to have some real world numbers!

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Altereds / Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?

« on: January 27, 2019, 06:42:10 PM »

Even at 1800# a fairly mild methanol stack injected 392 with cast heads should make enough power to run 8.60
Currently helping out building a 392 now to go into a FED should be on track in a few months

That's what I was hoping to hear

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Altereds / Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?

« on: January 27, 2019, 05:37:49 PM »

We run a 105" Altered at 1600 pounds with a stack injected 355 sbc.  Best of 8.79 in great weather.  Runs 8.90 like clockwork year round, we slow it down a bit to run the 9.0 class at our local track.   Shouldn't be much of a trick to build a 392 to run 8.60's.

Thanks fuel749,  I'll run my Chevelle, while I build a low buck altered.  Never thought I'd step up, but I think I can do a hemi on a budget since I do my own work.

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Altereds / Re: How much power needed to run 8.60 in a 105" nostalgia type Altered?

« on: January 20, 2019, 11:07:23 AM »

why are you settling? is it because of cost, we all have budgets yes Chev's are the cheapest and easiest to get parts for and 600hp isn't that hard to achieve sometime it's best to put dreams aside  and finish the project.

Yea, plus I have a couple other projects I need to finish

Just trying to get a cost idea to run NE2, think I have a good idea now.  Thanks everyone for your input.