FrontEngineDragsters.Org Forum
Technical => Jon's Wheel House => Topic started by: GlennLever on March 01, 2017, 11:36:22 AM
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Well went to replace my tires as I am seeing some cracking in the side wall.
I was running 31 12 15, with a 97 inch circumference, with a c11 compound (mid range) on a 12 inch rim
They do not make them any more.
they offer
31.5 13.5 15, with a 99.5 inch circumference, with a c07 compound (mid range (little softer)) they say they fit on 12 - 14 recommend 14
32.0 14.0 15, with a 102 inch circumference, with a c07 compound (mid range (little softer)) they say they fit on 12 - 14 recommend 14
I believe you have
33 12 15, with a 103 inch circumference, with a XXX compound (XXX XXXX) recommend rim XX
I have been running 8.00 at 165 but could set up to 7.5 at 180
Suggestions?
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Always ran the 33 12 15 on a 10" rim and never once had issues. Ran both 7.50 and 7.0pro with the same tire. With GY's straight numbers signify high growth comp tire, listings that include numbers with ".5" are door car tires that do not grow.Compounds dont matter unless you change tires every event, I ran whatever they had in stock and ran them for 2-3 years.
Cracking along the edge of the sidewall where the compound tread rubber ends, is normal
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So these are the cracks I am talking about, I have wet the sides of the tire and then used photo shop to up the contrast so you can see them.
(http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2534.0;attach=5513;image)
They are all the way around the tire and through the lettering on the tire.
(http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2534.0;attach=5511;image)
Are you saying I do not need to worry about this cracking?
Below is a scale of the the compound of Hoosier tires. Currently I am in the middle of the scale and remember I am a low HP vehicle. Hoosier is saying that I will dead hook if I go to the D05 compound tire.
(http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2534.0;attach=5515;image)
Glenn
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Why don't you buy a set of the D2585 GoodYears that Jon has specially made? They are 31 x 12 -15
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Why don't you buy a set of the D2585 GoodYears that Jon has specially made? They are 31 x 12 -15
Those would be narrower than what I am currently running, I do not know the circumference, and I do not, as yet, know how soft they are.
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I was running 31 12 15, with a 97 inch circumference, with a c11 compound (mid range) on a 12 inch rim
Why don't you buy a set of the D2585 GoodYears that Jon has specially made? They are 31 x 12 -15
Those would be narrower than what I am currently running, I do not know the circumference, and I do not, as yet, know how soft they are.
?
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The Hoosier 18225 has worked well for our setup.
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when did the "checks" show up??? recently? or have they been there and you just noticed??
If you are uncomfortable or have any doubts, by all means change them out, I have only run the GY's on my car so I dont know what to say about the Hoosiers without have them directly in front of me. but sidewall rubber compound is different then tread compound and it does "Check" where the 2 are vulcanized together. Cracking due to old age or letting the car sit on the tire while flat are issues, creases in the sidewall are never a good thing. Get new ones and use these for show or travling on and keep the new ones covered up with just enough air till needed.
Compounds--- I need tires and go to the truck or sales store, ask for my size and throw a compound number out there. they answer back with we only have this compound right now, I need tires so I buy them and never worried about it, Nascar,IRL,F1 or any other asphalt race tire that does not run on concreet and/or VHT is very compound sensitive and those cars go thru a boxcar full at a race for maximum performance. At our level and the types of tracks we run at, the tire gets old before we blow thru the tread, so compound is there for the first of many passes, and then goes away, but the VHT compinsates. Invest in a tire durometer and keep notes
Unfortunatly we dont have the time or money to do tire testing with differnt compounds and the tire reps are not interested in doing them because the sales volume is so low for them to do a comparisen, add to that, that they mostly deal with rear motor cars every week vs front motor cars 3-4 times a year
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I was running 31 12 15, with a 97 inch circumference, with a c11 compound (mid range) on a 12 inch rim
Why don't you buy a set of the D2585 GoodYears that Jon has specially made? They are 31 x 12 -15
Those would be narrower than what I am currently running, I do not know the circumference, and I do not, as yet, know how soft they are.
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Yes Glen I am at a question here also you said yours were a 31x12 so are the D2585's they are a D03 compound and are the JR Fuel go to tire
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I was running 31 12 15, with a 97 inch circumference, with a c11 compound (mid range) on a 12 inch rim
Why don't you buy a set of the D2585 GoodYears that Jon has specially made? They are 31 x 12 -15
Those would be narrower than what I am currently running, I do not know the circumference, and I do not, as yet, know how soft they are.
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Yes Glen I am at a question here also you said yours were a 31x12 so are the D2585's they are a D03 compound and are the JR Fuel go to tire
Your right my current tires are 12 wide.
the d05 and the c11 compounds are very far apart
(http://www.frontenginedragsters.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2534.0;attach=5515;image)
Bruce, yes I just noticed the checking, tires were never allowed to sit flat
Leaving for Indianapolis now to pick up the cast iron engine
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And on a "nearly totally unrelated" note: Why won't Hoosier get their whitewall logo paint process more under control so the white paint stays INSIDE the lettering on the sidewall. It looks pretty unprofessional to me and sends a message ,"Quality??? Not so much."
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I just got a set of 18225 from Bruce at Hoosier. I believe he is in the Midwest location. Very helpful guy. And I do believe they make one other slick very similar.
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M/T's? Not saying they are better even if I believe they are. No personal experiance to back belief's. I did put my money where thought is and bought new set of of M/T's.Reason where based on research and lots of positive feed back .Versatility in wide range of track tempt and consistent results where major factors.
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Glenn, I'm racing with a new driver at the March Meet this week end, but I'd like to give you some input, but I'm dead tired, and need to get some sleep. I'll get to you hopefully Friday nite, can you remind me how much your car weighs and what trans, and what rear gear you have ?
Thanks
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I just got a set of 18225 from Bruce at Hoosier. I believe he is in the Midwest location. Very helpful guy. And I do believe they make one other slick very similar.
I expect it was Bruce Browning at Hoosier Tire Midwest. They have a location in Springfield Illinois. I have also spoke with him on the needs of the FED combination. He recommended the 12 x31 or a 12 x33. I race with several guys who run bigger Hoosiers but I am sold on the 18225. We also have a Hoosier dealer in Springfield . He might offer up a better deal? http://www.garyhoosierman.com/
I am about 10 miles from either location. George
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Glenn, I'm racing with a new driver at the March Meet this week end, but I'd like to give you some input, but I'm dead tired, and need to get some sleep. I'll get to you hopefully Friday nite, can you remind me how much your car weighs and what trans, and what rear gear you have ?
Thanks
Just got back from Indianapolis. Dead tired myself. Have fun this weekend, will work on this on Monday.
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Hoosier tire Midwest has a store in Brownsburg ,IN.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hoosier-Tire-Midwest-Indy/254366727926376
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Hoosier tire Midwest has a store in Brownsburg ,IN.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hoosier-Tire-Midwest-Indy/254366727926376
Yep, they do not have that tiire
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Glen we use the Hoosiers also 33x12x15 (CO9) compound on 11inch wide wheel.
We have always been happy with them on our car until the last event. Honestly not sure if it was the track or the tires.
1.08 60ft hardest launch I have tried with the new convertor and a new tuneup.
The car dead hooked and started a bad shake @about 100ft(this track is also VERY rough) I stayed in it until about 350-400ft= 5.1et 1/8 chute out before the line ,short and bumpy shut down.
After that I spoke to Jon about the GoodYears he has.
We will be getting a set soon to try as it is a stiffer sidewall than the Hoosiers, and a bit harder compound. I still do like the Hoosiers though.
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Glen we use the Hoosiers also 33x12x15 (CO9) compound on 11inch wide wheel.
We have always been happy with them on our car until the last event. Honestly not sure if it was the track or the tires.
1.08 60ft hardest launch I have tried with the new convertor and a new tuneup.
The car dead hooked and started a bad shake @about 100ft(this track is also VERY rough) I stayed in it until about 350-400ft= 5.1et 1/8 chute out before the line ,short and bumpy shut down.
After that I spoke to Jon about the GoodYears he has.
We will be getting a set soon to try as it is a stiffer sidewall than the Hoosiers, and a bit harder compound. I still do like the Hoosiers though.
Hoosier 18350 33.0/12.0-15 102 circumstance recommended rim is 10 but OK for 10 - 12 c09 interesting. I have 12 inch rims
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Speak with Bruce Browning. http://www.racetires.com/springfield.cfm
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I run the Hoosier 12" on a 12" wheel. Best 60 ' last year was a 1.0168. Ran 1.02 many times.
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Thoughts on hoosiers on burnout.Heard lots of guys complain about shake at end of burnout when running hoosiers,wondering if you fella's with them on fed are finding same thing?
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Not here ;D
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Thoughts on hoosiers on burnout.Heard lots of guys complain about shake at end of burnout when running hoosiers,wondering if you fella's with them on fed are finding same thing?
Only if you burn to far out. they have a recommended procedure and if you follow it there is no problems.
2. What is the proper burn out procedure for Hoosier drag tires?
ANSWER: With Hoosier's "high traction" compounds, we have found the following burn out procedure to work for most cars. We recommend rolling through the water box to wet the tires. Start the burn out. Once the tires start to "haze", start to slow the burn out down and proceed to the start line. The goal of the burn out is to clean all debris off the tires and heat just the surface of the tread. Again this procedure will work for most cars, but fine tuning the procedure for your car may be needed.
I generally go through the lights and stop the burn out after the rear tires pass the staging point so I sit in fresh rubber when I launch. Remember I do not have a lot of power.
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Glen I drive a Buick :D so some times I stop the burn out as I pass the 330ft cones. We have made about 250 passes with Hoosiers and as I said I like them.
We have found our car likes 8 3/4# to 9# in most track conditions.
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Glen I drive a Buick :D so some times I stop the burn out as I pass the 330ft cones. We have made about 250 passes with Hoosiers and as I said I like them.
We have found our car likes 8 3/4# to 9# in most track conditions.
I just do not have the power to do that. I also run 8 3/4 PSI
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Our sweet spot is 7psi. I will sometimes take it a bit lower when I think we need more traction. Our combo is 1700 lbs. and maybe 1000hp.
A video here . We are the red FED . The run @ 4 minutes slowed to the .25 video speed shows plenty of wheel speed.
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Glen did you settle on a new tire? Or are you still looking at what's out there?
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Glen did you settle on a new tire? Or are you still looking at what's out there?
We have been without power and internet since Wednesday 03/08/2017 at 11:00 AM till Sunday 03/12/2017 at 8:45 PM.
Below is a link to a glimpse of the story
http://www.twcnews.com/nys/rochester/weather/2017/03/8/rochester-wind-weather-march-8.html#/0
Been unable to make any progress on this
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That does not look fun.
Hope you get back to normal soon
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That does not look fun.
Hope you get back to normal soon
So...we just got our power back and now we have this
WINTER Storm Warning REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 8 PM MONDAY TO 8 PM EDT WEDNESDAY...
Locations: Monroe...Wayne and Northern Cayuga counties.
Timing: From early Monday evening through early Wednesday evening.
Hazards: Heavy snow and blowing snow.
Accumulations: 1 to 2 inches Monday night...3 to 5 inches Tuesday...3 to 6 inches Tuesday night...3 to 5 inches Wednesday...and an inch or less Wednesday evening...leading to storm totals of 8 to 16 inches.
Winds: North 20 to 30 mph with gusts up to 40 mph.
Visibilities: As low as a half mile at times.
IMPACTS: Heavy snow and blowing snow could produce very difficult driving conditions with very poor visibility and deep snow cover on roads.
This had been an extremely mild winter up to this.
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Winter Storms, that's one of the reasons I moved from Milwaukee to SoCal in 74.
Sorry, Glenn I have not gotten back to you sooner, my computer got a cold.
The D2585 Goodyear 31x12x15 is actually 12.5" wide and a little wider on 12" wheel. Section width is 15.2" and 96.5" roll-out. One of the best things about that tire is it only weighs 22.6 lbs, the next available 12" tire is 30 lbs. Keep in mind the more rotating weight, the more power it takes. The D1288 Goodyear 33x12x15 has a 102" roll-out, with only one compound D-7 which is one compound softer than the D2585, D-3 which is a hard compound to help keep the tires spining some to not dead hook and pull the motor down out of the RPM range your motor is happy.
A little history here, in 2012 Goodyear decided not to keep a number of tires on their stocking production list. I found out that GY would make another batch of the 12" tires IF I gave them a solid order of 150 tires. When I gave the guy in charge of production schedule, he said "WOW, how did you do that, because when we looked at just making 100 tires, we would be sitting on them for 2 years." Turns out I did another Special order in 2015, when I ordered the D1288 and D2585.
We run 5.75 to 6.25 lb of pressure on 12" wheels with the higher pressures when I'm looking for more bite, and lower pressures when I want more tire speed, and to help tire shake, running 1.01-1.03 sixty foot times, and 7.0 ET's at high 180's mph.
I have heard from some Comp racers, including Frank Parks that they have found the Hoosiers have a somewhat narrow track temp range. Some have said below 70°, and above 110° they will smoke. Even tho Parks has retired from racing, but not stopping building race cars and parts, they did try M&H 33x12x15, i think mostly because they have less static rear-end weight because their motor is out 54".
Glenn, I would think the 2585's would work for you, granted you are not racing a light weight JrFueler, but you are also your motor is further back and is heavier, your motor makes more torque than us, which should work good with your motor location. Most of the Heritage jrfuel teams run the D2585, and lot of the NE-1, NE-2 teams too.
Call me if you decide on either of the Goodyears, 800-624-3803, 805-444-4489, cell
Jon
I hope this helps
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Glen
I have a set of the 2585 brand new never mounted I got from Jon, Matt is buying my used set for his son's car. I went to a blower motor this year and needed to go taller which I have now. If interested either pm me or call me cause some how there's at least one set going north this week soon. These were stored in cool dry place in black bag never mounted I'll give great price.
Thanks
Jim
908 612 0548
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Attached are four pictures, I have used Photoshop to increase the contrast so you can see the checking more clearly that we were talking about.
At this point I would like to run these tires another year, as next year we will be upping our game to a 7.0 index and will need new tires (again) at that point.
So if these are “safe” I would love to run them another year.
DSC_2269 is an overall picture
DSC_2270 Close up of the checking in the worse spot I can find
DSC_2271 current tire size
DSC_2272 date code “N9T0”, also more visible checking
Steve Fuhman 006 Side wall wrinkle
This is the research I have now
Manufacture Part # Tire Size Compound Rim Section Tread Circumference
Hoosier (current tire) 18225 31 X 12 – 15 C11 Med 12 16 12 97
Hoosier 18221 31 X 10.5 – 15 C07 Med 12 14.5 11 97 Best Compromise?
Hoosier 18237 31.5 X 13.5 – 15 C07 Med 14 17.2 13.5 99.5
GoodYear 2018 31 X 13 – 15 D5 Med Hard 12 15.6 12.8 96 Next best?, Raise RPM 100
GoodYear 2585 31 X 12 – 15 D3 Hard 12 15.2 12.5 96 Hard Compound, Raise RPM 100
M/T 3072 31 X 13 – 15 M5 Med 12 15.7 13 98
I could stand to raise the RPM at the finish line
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Glen How old is that tire and how many runs are on them ? If you are not sure then throw them away and put a new set of tires on it ! The side walls are what go bad in a drag tire !
Tires have been on the vehicle two years, but found they were manufactures in 2013. Number of runs I would be guessing at, 84. This was the response I got from Hoosier after talking with them and sending pictures.
Glenn,
The date code was actually D16N and it was produced in Feb of 2013. I cannot officially tell you that the tires are safe, simply because I can’t tell the future. That doesn’t mean there’s going to be an issue with them at all either. The cracking looks like it is just the thin sidewall rubber as that is the thinnest layer of rubber. The strength of the tire comes from the fabric not the thin layer of rubber on the outside sidewall. It might start leaking a bit, and it might not. You will have to make the ultimate decision to run them or not. Once again, the strength of the tire is in the fabric but the age might not allow the tire to be at its top performance level. I would just keep a close eye on them to make sure they don’t get worse.
I do believe that the 18221 is still our best replacement for your combination. It might even fit better as we talked with just a little less tread on the ground and help decrease the 60’ times.
I hope this info is helpful.
Thanks,
Faron Lubbers
Business Unit Manager
Drag Racing
Current plan is to run the same tires this year and buy new ones for the 7.0 next year. to that end I have just purchased a set of used rims for the 7.0 index. Double bead lock, 15 X 14 inches wide, 5 on 5
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Glenn, after looking at your photos, I think you can run them another season, they are just surface cracks. I have seen more/ deeper cracks, I think it's more about age. I put tire marking paint of the date on my tires when I put new tires on. My current tires are 2 years old, and the last set was more like 3 years old. My Goodyear contact says to replace tires when the 60's go away.
One point of interest is I've heard some of the ProStock guys would store their new tires in the attic [ hot] for 3-4 months to get them a bit harder and they get smaller.
Yes I have checked the softness of tires, and with age they do get harder, and when I've run the older/harder tires I increase the tire pressure on my 10" or 11" wheels to increase bite.
I hope this helps Glenn.
Jon
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Every time I read these threads on tire & wheel combos I can't begain to understand all the reasons for small tires on wide rims. I have always ran a 2 inch smaller rim than tire size. I think that Jon & Bruce run narrower rims than tire size & it works. With a narrow rim the car takes less HP & time to get up on the tire.
My combo is way different than anything I've ever seen posted. I run a 33 X 14.5 Hoosier on a 12 inch rim 8 PSI. I run a 3.54 gear, We stage at idle & use only the foot brake. Our 60 Ft. times are 1.03 - 1.05 We use a 9 inch very tight converter. At the march meet 7.11 @ 189 Motor is detuned to keep it in the 7's I am almost ready to drop in the A fuel motor & might go to a 3.25 gear. I think I will need a 10 inch converter before it's right.
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Yes Van, we do run a different a different combo than you. JrFuel rules are limited to 12" wide tires and 12" rims, and iron heads and blocks on pure alky, no blowers, 3.5 lbs per ci, and powerglides.
Where as in 7.0 Pro you can run anything, but no electronics, just don't run in the 6's.
Van, how big is your motor, and I assume it runs lower RPM than JF, and if I remember right you are running a 400 turbo with one or two gears out. Your combo runs more torque is my guess, because of your 3.54 rear gear and 14.5 wide tire, our JF motors are 10,000 rpm low torque combos, running 4.88 or 5.37 rear gears. It goes to show you how many different ways you can get to run low 7's, 189 mph.
Cheers, Jon