Author Topic: Potential FED Build  (Read 3292 times)

Offline fuel749

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2019, 06:49:32 AM »
OK....I concede (as I hang my head in shame), 4130 is the best way to go for numerous reasons and I should quit trying to take shortcuts or pinching pennies. I do wonder about my bender and dies being up to doing a nice job on .058" 4130. I have to pull out my bender and check, but I believe the 1.5" die I have is for 5.5" centerline radius bends. I don't know if it is too tight (no inside mandrel) to bend without kinks or ripples. I guess the only way I'll know is to get some tube and try it out.

The bender I have is a JD2, and if I recall from conversation with dreracecar on another website (the HAMB) that it isn't exactly the preferred bender to use anyway. I guess I'll just have to get some 4130 of a couple sizes and do some test bends to answer that uncertainty for myself. I do recall from previous use that my 1 3/4", 6.5" centerline radius die created an unacceptable, rippled inside radius on 16 Ga. HREW tube. I don't recall ever bending anything under .083" with the 1.5" die, but I fear the tighter radius on it will have the same problem when bending 4130. 

I know I keep saying it, but I do appreciate the suggestions and advice from everyone.

Lynn

Your JD2 will be just fine with the right die set.

Offline masracingtd1167

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2019, 09:22:49 AM »
I have another suggestion ! Why not look into a chassis kit ! It would come with all of the major bends you need and you build it the way you want it ! As far as the rear end an 8 3/4 mopar rear would be just fine for what you are doing and they still make a lot of good parts for them ! Stay away from an open rear and use a spool ! Use a nice small tire ! For something like you are running a 9 inch tire would be good ! Just do it and don't let your age get in the way ! I just tuned 69 this year and have no plans on stopping !

Offline rooman

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2019, 04:35:01 AM »
I have a Pro Tools bender which is just a clone of the JD2 and it sometimes has problems with 1.5" x .058" with a 6" CLR die. I either use .065" and splice it to the .058" with the sleeve in the front cage hoop area or I go to Force's shop and bend it on their $100K mandrel bender (which obviously is not an option for you  ;D)

Roo
Yeah, I am from the south--any further south and I would have been a bloody penguin.

Offline lake_harley

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2019, 06:34:30 AM »
I made a call yesterday to a friend of mine who builds dirt circle track modifieds and has a Mittler Bros. bender. It's the type that has a shoe to support the tube on the outer radius of the bend as it's drawn around the die. So, I believe I have tube bending covered.

Now, if my projects would just sell! I have a "barn find" '48 Ford coupe that I've lost interest in. The other is a fiberglass '33 Willys. The Willys is a "stretch" version by Dennis Taylor. I bought it as a body and bare chassis. It now has a Moser 9" and triangulated 4-link and Mustang II front suspension under it, so it's in bare "roller" state. It's a blank canvas now and could either go the direction of street rod or drag race. My phone number and e-mail are below if someone is interested. I do have photos that I could send via text or e-mail. Location is Southeast Missouri.

Lynn Winter
(573) 788-2574
winter62@att.net 
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 08:10:52 AM by lake_harley »

Offline dreracecar

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2019, 08:21:12 AM »
You will not get any good bends with 16ga mils steel tubing without a mandrel to support the ID at the start of the bend. To start any bend, the tubing has to crush first and mild that thin never recovers. Lots of people use the JD bender, , I prefer the Hossfeld as It produces a better bend for me.

Offline lake_harley

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2019, 08:22:51 AM »
I've done some searches for FED plans/blueprints and have found S&W, Mark Williams, and Neil&Parks. I also saw plans on Facebook and I believe e-bay but I'm apprehensive if they are properly designed to certify under SFI 2.6.

All of the plans are based on ~200" wheelbase which is a lot longer than I want. I've talked with someone at Mark Williams and S&W to pose the question about shortening the wheelbase. Both agreed that the plans can indeed be modified as I have in mind but it would stiffen the chassis (as I expected) but didn't see that as a problem for my intended purpose.

S&W plans consist of multiple sheets and it sounds like they go into more construction detail than the Mark Williams plans so I went ahead and ordered the S&W plans.

I'm really getting stoked about this project and hope the new year brings buyers for the project cars I have for sale so I can get started building!

 
Lynn
« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 08:51:03 AM by lake_harley »

Offline lake_harley

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2020, 12:50:15 PM »
I received the S&W FED plans today. I am really pleased with the detail that the drawings cover! There are 4 or 5 24" X 34" sheets that cover overall layout with multiple views, as well as cross-sectional views at various "stations" on the chassis. In addition to the large sheets the plans included a material list and additional 8 1/2" X 11" sheets that detail key tubing sections which indicate lengths between bends and bend angles for tubes such as the shoulder hoop, lower rear tube, etc..

Studying the plans will keep me entertained and occupied for some time. I find that studying the plans for something like this (I built an airplane from plans) helps me to get a good mental picture of how things will go together and that eventually makes building easier.

Lynn
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 12:53:12 PM by lake_harley »

Offline lake_harley

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2020, 11:08:15 AM »
A question has been running through my mind for a few days now, since I've been considering engine placement. I'm still open to either a 9" ford or 8 3/4" Mopar rearend and wondered if there's any significant difference in the pinion length between the two? Specifically, I'm wondering the difference in distance from the axle centerline to the forward end of the pinion for the two rearend designs. I'd like to keep everything as "close coupled" as possible and even an inch or two difference might sway my choice. I have a 9" here to measure but does anyone have a 8 3/4 Mopar to measure axle centerline to front of pinion threads distance?

Thanks, in advance.

Lynn

Offline wideopen231

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2020, 11:38:25 AM »
IMO setting motor way back is wrong approach if that what you are looking at with above statement. My observation has been that doing so just results in adding bunch of weight to front end later to make car drive able. May be worng its just waht I have seen on few others.
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline lake_harley

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2020, 02:41:53 PM »
Thanks for the post. With a long-shaft Powerglide I have and would plan to run, a 9" Ford would put the back of the engine about 39" to 40" forward of the axle centerline. I will add that I'm only expecting 275-300 HP with a mild 350 or 327 carbureted SBC (I already have both running, complete engines). Would you consider the 39-40" too close? I'll also mention that my desire is a pretty short (125-140" wheelbase) car that would be reminiscent of lower class & HP dragsters of the late 60's and early 70's. Trying to relive my youth, I guess.

Lynn
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 02:48:09 PM by lake_harley »

Offline crider

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2020, 03:13:13 PM »
My car is 178" wb, and I have a full length glide coupled straight into a 9". Irun a BBC and by the Et's I'm guessing right around 600hp. It has taken me quite a few runs to get the car dialed in to a point where it will run straight and be consistent, so I would say you should be fine at the power level you are wanting. Just set the wheelie bar low at first and see and it goes

Offline lake_harley

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2020, 07:39:20 PM »
In my calculations on axle centerline to back of engine dimension of 39-40", I added 3" of gap for the coupler length between the transmission output and roughly the front of the pinion threads. Is that about correct for a short coupler?

Lynn

Offline Rat

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2020, 08:39:53 PM »
Hi Lynn, Happy New Year and Welcome to the site.
We are using an 8 3/4 Chrysler, full length glide and coupler, the engine plate is 44" front the diff center line.
As you are finding out there are so many different combinations of FED. As other have stated build to suit your situation (shed/trailer etc) but safe and resaleable. With your horsepower target you can get away with a shorter/lighter chassis but be ready for some wheels up action. Enjoy the journey and the ride. 8)

Offline AF150

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2020, 09:20:52 AM »
Just a few thoughts...
If you put the engine out about 44" (back of block to rear axle centerline) with a full length powerglide,you can use a Mark Williams collapsible coupler. Makes transmission or third member removal possible without moving the engine. You will need an alignment bar for the rear end you pick.
Fab a fixture to hold housing square on your table with axle center about 15" above ground level.Then slide the block to the desired location and set the engine angle. Basically, you build the rest of the car around this arrangement.

I wouldn't recommend building less than 150" and 175" would be better. Most cars in the mid 60s were that long and it will handle better with any power plant.

MB
MB

Offline lake_harley

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Re: Potential FED Build
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2020, 02:30:10 PM »
Fab a fixture to hold housing square on your table with axle center about 15" above ground level.Then slide the block to the desired location and set the engine angle. Basically, you build the rest of the car around this arrangement.


Thanks. I've found, read and learned from photos of several FED builds and plan to do exactly as you describe with an alignment bar through the engine and into the third member. I plan to build a jig rigid enough to move around in my shop without it twisting, bending and sagging. I've seen jigs with just a single beam and arms coming off to locate items and tubes, but I'm leaning toward a double square tube jig just slightly narrower than my chassis, with crossmembers tack welded and/or clamped into place to locate and support things.

Also.....RAT   I appreciate your reply and input. I'll take all of the info and suggestions I can. I realize some of the opinions might conflict, but I'll try to make good decisions based on everyone's input.

Lynn