Author Topic: Not seeing any gains !  (Read 6394 times)

Offline masracingtd1167

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Not seeing any gains !
« on: October 28, 2019, 01:05:34 PM »
A little disappointed in the performance of my car this year ! After getting my tire problems straightened out I thought I could get my car to run in the six's ! Went from 15 percent to 20 and then 25 and no real gains at all ! Plugs look great and the motor seems happy ! The car runs the same MPH on nitro as it dose on straight alky ! It seems like the motor is falling off at 9400 and it used to pull good to 9700 ! Valve springs are fine ! I still have the same gear and converter that I used on alky and the converter is on the loose side it stalls at 8200 ! Wondering if a tighter converter would help! Just kind of lost and looking for some advice !

Offline Curly1

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2019, 01:45:05 PM »
I do think the Nitro gains would be at lower RPM and tighter stall may help with that. With your motor turning lower RPM than it was before I suspect something else may be going on. What kind of injection you have?

Offline msundstrom

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2019, 06:29:05 PM »
What jetting/ timing changes did you make for 25% if any?

Offline masracingtd1167

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 02:31:28 AM »
Over the winter I did drop the compression from 14.5 to 12 to 1 and I also went to a 14 lbs oil ring from 11 lbs and a tool steel top ring from a gapless ! Jetting from a 88 jet on alky to an 84 with the 25 percent !

dreracecar

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2019, 07:43:44 AM »
Such a low percentage is only going to give you stink and very little gain

Offline masracingtd1167

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2019, 12:44:02 PM »
Such a low percentage is only going to give you stink and very little gain
Bruce The car did pick up the year before when we first tried the nitro at 13 percent but that was at the higher compression ! With the 13 percent it went from 4.60 eighth and high 7.20's at 181 to 4.51 eighth 7.11 at 186 ! Right now with the 25 percent it will still run 4.51 to the eighth but just seems to fall off after and only run at best 181 ! I have been wondering if my ignition might not be putting out enough ! would a 25 percent mix be harder to light ? My MSD 7AL3 box is getting old 12 years and if I have to buy a new box I think I might just go ahead and buy a Mag ! Plug wires are also 12 years old so I think it is time for some new ones I guess I got my money's worth out of them !Going to send my fuel system to Spud and have it flowed ! Any other ideas Guy's !   

Offline 32bantam

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2019, 12:55:34 PM »
More timing with more Nitro ?
Steve Walczak

Offline Paul New

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2019, 12:58:31 PM »
More timing with more Nitro ?
I know nothing but I think at 25% you treat it as an alky engine still.

Offline THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2019, 01:06:03 PM »
After reading the 51 part youtube documentary on The Surfers TF team of the 60's I remember that teams were having hi-rpm problems because of the mag kill switches they were using. They installed a knife switch on the primary side of the mag to cure the problem. This may-or-may-not be relevant with an MSD but I would look at it nonetheless.

Offline masracingtd1167

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2019, 02:36:55 PM »
I did try more timing went from 34 to 36 and showed nothing yet the plugs look like it could use more !

Offline wideopen231

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2019, 02:59:41 PM »
what did added percentage do to converter stall? Thinking you probably picked up 400 rpm on stall. I know you read spuds nitro notes dozen times. He did say you would probably end up little leaner when at ideal jet..Since you have the compression down throw some more nitro at it. If pump can handle it you will probably need little more nozzle if going over 30%. I was told about 600 to 700 change with tq change if running 30%,based on spud's nitro tq calculator. With less compression you might be able to bump ignition.Speaking of which. Are you sure its up to task if increasing %?
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

dreracecar

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2019, 03:03:10 PM »
The problem with electronic ign is that the duration is not long enough for Nitro/Alc.   Elec ign fires a precise spark at XX deg's  every single time and with gas, that is what you want, but alc/nitro makes power at different times during combustion. When the engine is cold the mix fires with the piston close to the top of the stroke with the static compression, as the engine heats up the mixture fires sooner and if you add boost to that even earlier, so with that you need a spark that covers that range for which a magneto provides. Lighting the mix early than full boost and/or heat require, you are running out of juice early on when things are not optimum to making the power. Making power in the beginning of the pass really knocks the ET down more than the gain on the top.  If magnetos didn't work, they would use something else, Personaly ,would not run a mag with gasoline, that's where the electronic shows its strenght

Offline msundstrom

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2019, 05:33:02 PM »
33% and under my alcohol tune up and nitro tune ups were the same. My experience is the more nitro the greater effect on the converter. In my case I slowed down the more % I added.
Mark S

Offline masracingtd1167

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2019, 10:51:32 AM »
Thinking over the ignition part of it going to test my box ! Going to change converter for sure and send the fuel system out to be tested ! My season is over here in the north east so I will just have to wait till spring to test again ! Took the heads off last night and the cylinder walls look great ! 

Offline Paul New

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Re: Not seeing any gains !
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2019, 01:20:51 PM »
Over the winter I did drop the compression from 14.5 to 12 to 1 and I also went to a 14 lbs oil ring from 11 lbs and a tool steel top ring from a gapless ! Jetting from a 88 jet on alky to an 84 with the 25 percent !

The drop in compression may be a reason for the drop in power also?  12-1 and 25% may be similar results as your 14.5-1 and 15% maybe