Author Topic: Front suspension  (Read 1819 times)

Offline mrmopartech

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Front suspension
« on: May 24, 2019, 06:20:37 PM »
Has anyone every put a independent front suspension on there digger or have pictures of there car with it and how well it works,mrmopartech    penstarperformance@gmail.com Please post or send pics,thanks,scott

Offline JrFuel Hayden

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2019, 03:00:17 PM »
here is a photo of a FED Woody front indy suspention, from what has been said , "no advantage"
Well my photo is too large to post , so if you are still interested Email me so I have your E address and I can Email the photo
jchansen60@gmail.com

Jon
Jon C. Hansen

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Offline dreracecar

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 08:10:11 AM »
not worth the effort and expense since the driver is along the centerline of the car,  now offset  the drive as in a door car and suspension is a must


Offline fuel749

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 03:52:28 PM »
A few years ago there were a few  RED's around running Strange's altered struts.    More recently there was a builder with a swing arm or link type straight axle front end.  The selling point was the ability to keep the front tires on the ground at the launch .  The reasoning behind it is that it would help starting line  consistency  in bracket type rear engine cars that would occasionally and sometimes frequently (depending on xxxx near everything and anything) quickly pop the front tires off the ground and set them back down again almost immediately causing erratic red lights and/or reaction times.

Are you looking to solve an existing problem?

Offline dreracecar

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 05:19:50 PM »
A few years ago there were a few  RED's around running Strange's altered struts.    More recently there was a builder with a swing arm or link type straight axle front end.  The selling point was the ability to keep the front tires on the ground at the launch .  The reasoning behind it is that it would help starting line  consistency  in bracket type rear engine cars that would occasionally and sometimes frequently (depending on xxxx near everything and anything) quickly pop the front tires off the ground and set them back down again almost immediately causing erratic red lights and/or reaction times.

Are you looking to solve an existing problem?


  If it worked, they would still be around today and the question would not have to be asked.  add the same amount of weight all that stuff weighs to the front and it would keep the front end down too and for much much cheaper

Offline THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 07:47:55 PM »
A few years ago there were a few  RED's around running Strange's altered struts.    More recently there was a builder with a swing arm or link type straight axle front end.  The selling point was the ability to keep the front tires on the ground at the launch .  The reasoning behind it is that it would help starting line  consistency  in bracket type rear engine cars that would occasionally and sometimes frequently (depending on xxxx near everything and anything) quickly pop the front tires off the ground and set them back down again almost immediately causing erratic red lights and/or reaction times.

Are you looking to solve an existing problem?

That's why I use them on my S/Pro altered. I can't speak for REDs though.

Offline fuel749

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2019, 09:00:43 AM »
A few years ago there were a few  RED's around running Strange's altered struts.    More recently there was a builder with a swing arm or link type straight axle front end.  The selling point was the ability to keep the front tires on the ground at the launch .  The reasoning behind it is that it would help starting line  consistency  in bracket type rear engine cars that would occasionally and sometimes frequently (depending on xxxx near everything and anything) quickly pop the front tires off the ground and set them back down again almost immediately causing erratic red lights and/or reaction times.

Are you looking to solve an existing problem?


  If it worked, they would still be around today and the question would not have to be asked.  add the same amount of weight all that stuff weighs to the front and it would keep the front end down too and for much much cheaper

Who said it doesn't work?  There's still guys running them and building them today.  Serious bracket racers put more miles on their dragsters in a season than you will in five years and frequently race for serious money.  They're likely to have tried a lot of things to solve their problems and this clearly works for some of them.  Most of these cars have so much stuff on them that they already have a ton of front weight on them and shuffling weight doesn't always have the effect that it does on a lightweight  car.

Offline dreracecar

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2019, 03:13:56 PM »
A few years ago there were a few  RED's around running Strange's altered struts.    More recently there was a builder with a swing arm or link type straight axle front end.  The selling point was the ability to keep the front tires on the ground at the launch .  The reasoning behind it is that it would help starting line  consistency  in bracket type rear engine cars that would occasionally and sometimes frequently (depending on xxxx near everything and anything) quickly pop the front tires off the ground and set them back down again almost immediately causing erratic red lights and/or reaction times.

Are you looking to solve an existing problem?


  If it worked, they would still be around today and the question would not have to be asked.  add the same amount of weight all that stuff weighs to the front and it would keep the front end down too and for much much cheaper

Who said it doesn't work?  There's still guys running them and building them today.  Serious bracket racers put more miles on their dragsters in a season than you will in five years and frequently race for serious money.  They're likely to have tried a lot of things to solve their problems and this clearly works for some of them.  Most of these cars have so much stuff on them that they already have a ton of front weight on them and shuffling weight doesn't always have the effect that it does on a lightweight  car.

  Show me a current chassis builders website that offers a front suspension for a rear motor DRAGSTER frame
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 03:16:41 PM by dreracecar »

Offline THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2019, 08:51:34 AM »
I can't speak for websites, but around the Midwest many, many S/P and T/D REDs have upgraded their chassis(s?) with front suspension to keep their wheels in the beams regardless of track conditions. The most popular upgrade seems to be the "rocker arm" style which is nearly invisible under the bodywork, save for the slotted openings for the front axle to move up-n-down - maybe an inch of compression and rebound.

Offline wideopen231

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2019, 03:25:10 PM »
There is one builder who builds RED's with front suspension. Lot of guys on DRR swear it works and the one who have one say it is best driving car they ever had. I think he is smaller shop and builds limited number of them You might find some info on http://drr.infopop.cc Do a search. Hey at one time someone thought it took a idiot to have 4 link on dragster and now they are standard issue.
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Offline fuel749

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2019, 03:12:48 PM »
It wasn't on their website but a 30 second phone call to Dan at Diamond Race cars in Ohio (not to be confused with Diamond Race Cars in Indiana, a modified builder) confirms that they are indeed still producing their  front suspended DRAGSTER chassis. The phone number is 419-875-4080 if you'd like to call him yourself Bruce.

Offline BK

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2019, 05:33:48 PM »
I have a friend that buys kits from Diamond and retro fits them.
Not sure what the advantage is but he likes them.

Offline dreracecar

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2019, 08:40:21 AM »
I can't speak for websites, but around the Midwest many, many S/P and T/D REDs have upgraded their chassis(s?) with front suspension to keep their wheels in the beams regardless of track conditions. The most popular upgrade seems to be the "rocker arm" style which is nearly invisible under the bodywork, save for the slotted openings for the front axle to move up-n-down - maybe an inch of compression and rebound.


  I thought the whole point was to react and get out of the beams as quickly as possible.  At the hit--- if the front is rising^^^^^, its not going forward>>>>>>

  Racers and builders are a copy-cat/monkey see-monkey do lot, I could win a big race with some rubber dog poop glued to the nose and at the next event there will be others , although it might be made out of carbon fibre or machined Ti.  No Chassis shop wants to build a second place chassis-- if somethings works, they all will produce it


  You can pick and chose however you want to build your car, many ideas out there -good/bad/indifferent.  soft-tail to ridged , front suspension or solid, fully suspended or rock hard, Until it reaches the point where a solid car cannot win anymore, there is no advantage.  It also could come to a point that the solid car gets phased out due to the desire for suspended chassis's as a perceived "next best thing" and not because of an advantage

Offline THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2019, 02:41:58 PM »
Front engined Top Fuelers continued to win races after Garlits perfected the RED. But when the racing community finally accepted all the advantages a RED had that is the direction things moved. With today's mega Horsepower bracket racers and Nostalgia racers it is no longer a question of "how quickly can I get out of the beams?", rather "how quickly AND CONSISTENTLY can I get out of the beams?" Heck, if I want my car to move out of the beams sooner all I have to do is take time out of the box. I want it to get out and not have to deal with the occasional front tire being lifted out of the beam giving me a red light. Several technological advancements have made for greater consistency - two-steps, 4-links with double adjustable shocks, and sprung front ends to name a few. Not every digger with a solid front axle is out of date. But when you do the statistics on the distribution of reaction times and find that springing the front will give you tighter 3-sigma limits you should consider it.

This discussion started with the question of putting an independent suspension on the front of their digger. While nobody has stepped forward with a positive review of an independent front end I think there have been several racers who recognize the advantage of springing the front end.

Offline dreracecar

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2019, 03:44:39 PM »
The reaction of an altered is different then a  100" longer solid dragster. I can put a jack in the middle of a ridged dragster and lift the frame before the wheels come up or I can grab one front wheel and lift it up before the other one moves.  Chassis stiffness allows the suspension to operate otherwise chassis flex negates the action and the only thing it does is add weight -cost-wind resistence (outboard shocks).

  Too many inconsistencys track to track, are the racers willing to spend the time-effort-money to re-spring and re-valve the shocks or do they just run as received from the builder in the limited time they have during the race. The 4 link cars Ive worked on, the racers have never done the work to see if a change made a difference, just assumed it did because they spent the money for it. How can you make changes without putting the car on scales. Maybe that's what a consumet traveling pro racer does with his car, keeps extensive logs. and has a parts inventory, but as a hobby once a month racer, don't expect it to change a thing from a solid chassis