Author Topic: calming the car down on the starting line  (Read 21135 times)

Offline racerken

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 8.76 1/4 mile (FED)
  • Your Track: State Capital Raceway
  • Your Vehicle: FED
  • General Location: Baton Rouge La
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2018, 11:11:26 AM »
Does it have a spool or open rear end.

Offline wideopen231

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 1/8 3.70@ 198 1/4 5.78@245
  • Your Engine: Hemi 526 ci alcohol
  • Your Track: Piedmont
  • Your Vehicle: 225 CMC FED
  • General Location: NORTH CAROLINA
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2018, 02:17:11 PM »
I would measure rearend to motor plate both side and then check rear end is centered. If  all check out there I would swap tires around,maybe one has issue. If still goes right you know its not in tires,If goes left you have the problem
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline crider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 5.01
  • Your Engine: BBC
  • Your Track: farmington, Nc
  • Your Vehicle: in progress
  • General Location: south east
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2018, 03:18:20 AM »
To answer some of the questions, I've lowered the wheelie bars enough now that the front tires are staying on the ground, and still pushing the front to the right. Also have measured tires diameter is less than 1/8" different side to side. I don't really think the rear would be out of line, because the car was running straight as an arrow until this issue just popped up out of nowhere, but I will sure check it. It's a spool rear diff. I had thought about swapping tires, maybe that's next. I'm running out of time to get any runs this fall

Offline dusterdave173

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 5.38in 1/8th
  • Your Engine: 355 CI SBC
  • Your Track: Mooresville, NC
  • Your Vehicle: CenPen 200 inch FED
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2018, 06:27:36 AM »
Does it have a cracked frame support somewhere??
I remember Doug Herbert hauled across the USA got out trailer car nearly killed him--they stripped the tin off and due to wrong chassis support ( crew screw up ) it had cracked some supports
You seem to have tried everything--tires are within spec--WAS going straight
so??
That or you are not in the groove-- very Easy to do---rather---it is hard without experienced crew to get staged right in the groove in a dragster  makes all the diff in the world
I have always had a fascination with fast cars at the expense of more normal character development

Offline wideopen231

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 1/8 3.70@ 198 1/4 5.78@245
  • Your Engine: Hemi 526 ci alcohol
  • Your Track: Piedmont
  • Your Vehicle: 225 CMC FED
  • General Location: NORTH CAROLINA
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2018, 09:24:01 AM »
Yea forgot about the its just started this. Then I would definitely check frame and then swap tires.If for no other reason than to remove ant doubt.
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline masracingtd1167

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • bill masiello Shelton Ct.
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 7.40's at 181 on motor 6.94 at 192 nitrous
  • Your Engine: 394 chevy
  • Your Track: Lebanon Valley Dragway
  • Your Vehicle: 2003 Neil and Parks
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2018, 10:11:22 AM »
Both Chris and Dave are right about checking the frame and swapping the tires and I would do the same ! Did you add some weight to the front ? Did you drop your tire pressure It should give you some more wheel speed ! Those 10.5 tires are very aggressive and it is hard to get wheel speed with them ! How about taking some timing out like 28 degrees ! How close dose Chris wide open live to you ? See if he could come to the track with you ! I had a similar problem when I tried a different tire on mine and I just could not get the car to go straight went back to my 2585 Goodyears and the car was perfect !

Offline wideopen231

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 1/8 3.70@ 198 1/4 5.78@245
  • Your Engine: Hemi 526 ci alcohol
  • Your Track: Piedmont
  • Your Vehicle: 225 CMC FED
  • General Location: NORTH CAROLINA
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2018, 10:40:11 AM »
If you are running Farmington I am about 45 minutes away. Just need cpl days notice and next two Saturdays are booked.Its muzzleloader and my family know not to die during those two weeks or Chris will not be there. Now if your doing midday so I can leave out around 3:30 and be in my stand come 5 o clock I am willing to help out.

Now Bill has me worried about my MT's on FED,bt then those who know me know getting wheels speed has never been my problem.Too much maybe.LOL
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline JrFuel Hayden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
    • Hayden Enterprises Speciality Wheels
  • Your Best Time: 6.02, 236 mph, 1/4 in 1973 Div 3 TF Champ
  • Your Engine: SBC, Alky, 403 ci, Best 6.99 @ 190 & 409 Hemi
  • Your Track: Bakersfield
  • Your Vehicle: 225" FED NHRA Heritage Jr Fuel
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2018, 01:48:53 PM »
Crider , I have benn following your posts, and I may not have THE answer, but here are a couple of my thoughts;
I assume your chassis and rear-end set-up is good since your car was going straight before, with no chassis changes, just more power ?
But again check the roll out of your slicks, and try swaping tires to see if it still turns right at about 30' .
If it was my JF car I would add at least 40 lbs to the nose if you are getting a quick yank of the front wheels at the hit, that might be adding to your problem if you have a short or stiff wheelie par.
My WB is a 5 foot 3 bar CM with no connectors between the bars, so I get some flex in the WB , a stiff WB will only make your problem worse when the WB hits.
Again , if it was my car and I added pressure to the right tire and it still goes more right, I would think it means the right tire is spinning more so the left slick steers the car to the right.
I notice you and a few other racers are using the M/T 33x10.5x15 tires, and just so know all the 10.5 tires were built for the 10.5 door car classes, where the cars weight 2-3k+ and shift allot more times than your PG , which means the sidewalls are stiffer, and softer compounds for better traction. Where as FED 2 speed cars want/need enough tire spin the keep the engine at it's HP RPM range.
I have tried the MT 33x10.5 a few times on our 1450lb [ with driver] Heritage all iron JrFuel car, mostly because a buddy of mine could not get them to work on his Heritage A/F car, mostly because he was looking for more tire growth , because it was a a stiffer side tire he did not get what he wanted. With our JF car we did get a bit better 60' times, but the GY 31x12x15 gave us better ET's, AND it drifted to the right, probly not the reason you are going right.     
What I would do if it was my car is keep adding front weight until the front wheels don't come up, raise the WB up to 2-2.5 "  check roll-out, check for chassis cracked or broke tubing [ we have cracked tubing from tire shake] try different launch RPM, or leave off the foot brake and tire pressures [ MT suggests 7-7 .25, but i see some guys are running 5-5.25, but check to see how fast they are running]. One thing that helped our 7.0's 186-189mph car is changing to a 1.69 first gear so it will not hit the tires so hard, and I run a looser converter [ 8500 rpm] that also helps not hit the tires so hard.
About converters, your car will improve when you get the converter to cloer match you engines power range. example your converter is stallin/ flashing at 6.2k but if you engine "come-on" at 7k she wil struggle for 1000 rpm. best way to get the right converter is to dyno your engine, if that's not possible ball park idea is it should stall about 1000-1500 below your shift RPM.
Another idea is to aim your GoPro camera at your tack to play back the goPro to see what the RPM drops to right after the shift [ which is your true stall rpm].
This is no dought too much info, so feel free to call me , 805-444-4489, cell
Jon     
Jon C. Hansen

Hayden Wheels

Offline crider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 5.01
  • Your Engine: BBC
  • Your Track: farmington, Nc
  • Your Vehicle: in progress
  • General Location: south east
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2018, 03:02:23 PM »
Thanks Jon for all the info, seems like a few more Ideas to try. I have dropped the air down to 6psi. Haven't added a weigh bar yet, as lowering the wheelie bar got all the crazy launches under control, now it is just a slow push to the right instead of the I wonder which way it's gonna go this time action that I had going on.  I'll pull the tin back off and give everything a good check before the next time I go out. I had it all off when I was centering the wheelie bar, but didn't really check it closely. As for the converter, it was set up as a 6400 stall, and I'm shifting at 7200. But haven't been paying attention to the rpm drop to know the true stall speed. I really need to get this thing to run straight. I've had my hilborn setup back from Spud for a while now, but I want to have the car acting right before I open another can of tuning worms...lol I guess next time out I will switch the tires around. I don't think it is a lack of being in the groove, since it has done almost exactly the same thing 6 passes in a row and at 2 different tracks. after a quick slap of the throttle it goes as straight and smooth as you could ever ask for. I just need to fix the first 60 ft of the run.
Chris  if I haven't got this thing figured out by the end of hunting season I may have to take you up on the offer to help out. I could use a good pair of eyes on the outside of the car too

Offline wideopen231

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1910
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 1/8 3.70@ 198 1/4 5.78@245
  • Your Engine: Hemi 526 ci alcohol
  • Your Track: Piedmont
  • Your Vehicle: 225 CMC FED
  • General Location: NORTH CAROLINA
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2018, 03:19:35 AM »
Let me know. 336 362 1785.Heck I love tuning a car more than driving anyway and little FED experience might payoff if my junk ever gets something to ride on to get it to track. Plus I have a go pro that will give recording thats better than old guys eyes,it rewinds.LOL
Relecting obama is like shooting right foot because it did not hurt enough when you shot left foot

Offline masracingtd1167

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • bill masiello Shelton Ct.
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 7.40's at 181 on motor 6.94 at 192 nitrous
  • Your Engine: 394 chevy
  • Your Track: Lebanon Valley Dragway
  • Your Vehicle: 2003 Neil and Parks
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2018, 08:12:58 AM »
Sounds like you are going in the right direction and I also think that adding some weight to the front will get you down the track ! once you are going straight you can make small changes to see what it dose !I spent a lot of time on my car trying to keep as much weight to the front ! Things like your fuel tank battery fire bottle ! I even moved my ignition box and primer pump up front and I still have to add a little weight to mine ! If you can move some of your weight even if it is in the middle of the car to the front it will help ! Some of my Comp friends are running that 10.5 tire and having good luck with it but they are rear engine cars with big hp and a 3 speed trans ! i have never tried a 10.5 on my car but if I did it would be the 31 tall one !       

Offline dusterdave173

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 5.38in 1/8th
  • Your Engine: 355 CI SBC
  • Your Track: Mooresville, NC
  • Your Vehicle: CenPen 200 inch FED
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2018, 08:24:30 AM »
I agree--I could not drive my car no way no how without the 44 lbs on the nose
FWIW we have decided 7 1/2 lbs in our MT 10.5x33 works best on our SBC car
I have always had a fascination with fast cars at the expense of more normal character development

Offline masracingtd1167

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • bill masiello Shelton Ct.
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 7.40's at 181 on motor 6.94 at 192 nitrous
  • Your Engine: 394 chevy
  • Your Track: Lebanon Valley Dragway
  • Your Vehicle: 2003 Neil and Parks
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2018, 10:12:05 AM »
I try to keep as much weight forward as possible

Offline masracingtd1167

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1138
  • bill masiello Shelton Ct.
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 7.40's at 181 on motor 6.94 at 192 nitrous
  • Your Engine: 394 chevy
  • Your Track: Lebanon Valley Dragway
  • Your Vehicle: 2003 Neil and Parks
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2018, 11:13:09 AM »
I was just looking back at some pictures of your car and I noticed that it has a torsion bar front end ! Is it possible that when the car leaves the axle has no load on it and it turns the front wheels a little to the right ? 

Offline crider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
  • Your Best Time: 5.01
  • Your Engine: BBC
  • Your Track: farmington, Nc
  • Your Vehicle: in progress
  • General Location: south east
Re: calming the car down on the starting line
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2018, 05:08:58 AM »
I have as much weight forward as I really can move up there. Fuel tank and trans cooler all the way up. Then battery and radiator right in front of the engine. Never thought about the possibility of front suspension travel turning the wheels. I don't think it is, but it's worth checking for sure. I really wish the monsoons would quit, seems like a month or more between dry days that I get to go to the track