Author Topic: Where to Start  (Read 6884 times)

dreracecar

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2017, 08:18:22 AM »
There was no trans and there was a clutch and a driveshaft direct to the rear end. The only traction was what the tires had in the rubber and the driver working the clutch to get the car moving forward and down the track in a 1100#car

   One thing that has to be considered is that Jons car runs on a open ended ET and my car runs a closed ended Index. Our Ets are the same 7 seconds, but his are with a limited  Alc injected engine and mine are on a un-restricted blown Alc engine
  Jon and his class of JR Fuel are constantly changing parts and moving things around to achieve the best results possable for that class
  Since all I have to do is tune my (1460# w/driver) car to run a set number. Placement of componants are not as critical to performance, and can configure to the look I want. One can get most anything to work. My engine placement is at 39" because that is the length of a full PG without having to buy extra driveline parts and with a 33" tire, I am able to get it to work for me for the class I run.
 At the recent March Meet race, 28 cars with varying degree of engineering and style running the 7.0Pro index class, had the final qualifying order with the top 16 ranging from a 7.001 to a 7.09X
 So now we look at the car that Jons friend has up for offer, Its a quality piece no doubt and can be considered. Disreguarding it because the motor is too far forward or too far back to some "EXPERTS" is rediculess. If the car has the LOOK that you desire and you fit (suit & helmet) within your price range is all you really need
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 08:39:28 AM by dreracecar »

Offline JrFuel Hayden

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2017, 09:59:39 AM »
A high gear car means no trans, we just put a 2x4 between the rearend and clutch pedal to move the car around with-out the engine running. And yes during that time all dragsters were push started, I miss that part of the "Show" with the push starts coming from the finish line and cross over at the start line. If burn-outs were allowed past the start line we were pushed back by the crew members. THe chassis had to changed to fit reversers between the clutch cans and rear-ends.
 AH the "Good Old Days"
The "show" started to go away when they came up with roller starters, ya it moved the show along faster but at the expense of the cross-over "show".
Jon
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Offline gordon

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2017, 10:43:29 AM »
Northern CA chassis builder Davey Uyehara has a shop in Yuba city. He has been building and racing Front Eng Dragsters since the sixties. My car was built by him.  200" with blown alky BBC tor the 7.0pro class. He can build new style or old.

Offline nostalgic371

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2017, 11:27:53 AM »
There is no science in rake. It is the relation of how far the motor is out in front of the rear end and the clearance of the front of the oil pan to the ground. The further back along the driveshaft center line the more angle the engine achieves,the further out the more of the angle is reduced.
A powerglide is the most common installed drivline in drag cars today,but never was considered in the early days
Another reason for the reduced engine rake is the huge popularity now of the 9 inch ford rear end, which has the pinion intersect the ring gear at a lower point than the 8 3/4 Chrysler rears that used to be more common back in the day, and add to that, a large full length oil pan can be run as well.
But I still love the old look, myself.

Offline masracingtd1167

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2017, 11:35:55 AM »
Hey Jon I remember the old push starts too !

Offline JrFuel Hayden

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2017, 12:02:12 PM »
Ahhh, where is the push plate on the push car ?  If the dragster had a rouned push bar I would think it would get caught on the bumber or at least screw-up the lic plate. Maybe a roller start at the far end just being followed by the tow car ?

Jon
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Offline masracingtd1167

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2017, 12:47:25 PM »
We used this type of push bar . It worked pretty good !

dreracecar

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2017, 01:24:37 PM »
There is no science in rake. It is the relation of how far the motor is out in front of the rear end and the clearance of the front of the oil pan to the ground. The further back along the driveshaft center line the more angle the engine achieves,the further out the more of the angle is reduced.
A powerglide is the most common installed drivline in drag cars today,but never was considered in the early days
Another reason for the reduced engine rake is the huge popularity now of the 9 inch ford rear end, which has the pinion intersect the ring gear at a lower point than the 8 3/4 Chrysler rears that used to be more common back in the day, and add to that, a large full length oil pan can be run as well.
But I still love the old look, myself.

 its only .500 lower

Offline dusterdave173

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2017, 05:28:47 PM »
I started with a chassis kit from Worm / cenpen / or slingshot dragsters--I did this because they sold many a "dream" and they were lots out there--I got a divorce deal on a bare chassis kit that was tacked and in two pieces--Looking back --whew! It is a miracle that I got it finished --I never ever imagined how much was involved--I had built about a dozen door cars and could whip one out in three weeks--but this car took about a year and half as I just spent what I could as I went along--the $500 chunks and the $40 items and the small items were deceptive and added up big time but--I enjoyed the scavenger hunt at the swaps and online and trading etc
The car has been finished--I have a season and half on it--I drive the $%^* out of it--I am now confident in the car--feel like I am under control and know how to make better decisions every week--I have learned a LOT--My biggest gripe has been when I want to snag the engine or trans out--it was poorly designed for service--which I admit happens seldom and is no big deal but with some little extra here and there it could have been much better done in that dept
My car is a 200 inch--I LIKE it  It fits inside a 24 ft trailer--it answers the helm better than any car I have ever had
I kept slowing the steering until I could "saw" on the wheel ( as I seemed to be inclined to do) and not be making much input--a video camera at first is a must--it teaches you was it the car?, the track?, the groove?, the driver? etc  you learn quick--real quick
From the side view my car looks good--does the roll bar look nostalgic? NO Is it my dream dragster ? NO but...I have had more fun in that car than anything I have ever owned and that list is long
My drive these days is to make small changes like move shifter, get Camlock belts ( stupid not to run these) as they are so easy to use vs latch style, move belt anchors, all driver comfort things
First outing this year but days away--can't wait!
Guys in my level always start looking to a blower vs injection--me..I am planning small nitro % as the few times I have tried it have been crazy easy fun--many blower cars can't make it down the tracks we run in our area so I am staying injected--feel like I can get more "press" from running a little nitro than being blown at least in my area and..who does not want to try that some?
Find a car that fits and is comfortable --make it safe--leave engine alone and learn the car and learn to drive so you are not a hazard to fans and your fellow racers--
A new chassis or better yet a new roller is the only way to go--leave the old junk for shows  many say get a running car--but lots of them are said to be running cars race ready and are piles of junk built by rookies--a real running car is Ok f you have seen it run at least a few weeks in a row and one that IS race ready--those are out there but very few--most cars sold are so far from safe and ready it is a joke--and you wind up rebuilding them so NO savings at all
Saving $$ is silly to say around a race car endeavor--either you have the funds to do it or not--Face that reality first and foremost--you may be a better fan than racer--If you are a racer then nothing can stop you from achieving your goals--Period!
Good luck
I have always had a fascination with fast cars at the expense of more normal character development

Offline THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2017, 06:24:12 PM »
A popular old quote:

In racing you can be fast, cheap and safe.

Pick two

Offline Van

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2017, 09:35:44 PM »
This is my car that my long time friend and driver, Keven, and I built. It is definitely fast, cheap and safe. We ran 7.11 @189 at the March meet in 7.0 Pro. We're running very detuned to keep it in the 7's.
Junkyard Dana 60 rear, 3.50 gear
Turbo 400 trans
Junkyard 460 Ford block, 1970

Van

Offline swilling

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2017, 07:44:43 PM »
oh man So much good info here! everything i hoped for an more from all you guys. Really appreciate it.

So just to spell it out - im looking to get into this to build something really really cool, even if that means buying a bare chassis thanks to the Advice on here, i'm not concerned about time or money. m'm well aware of the cost and effort. if i was affraid to spend money, i wouldnt be passionate about Pontiac engines lol.

i dont want to compete, i just want to run this thing at my local track, tune it, run some more, and crunch numbers on what i did and what helped, and what didn't. Just really get down to the nitty gritty stuff.

Its gotta look cool, and oldschool, as mentioned before i plan to just run an N/A Poncho mill to start and get a feel. 

Heres my next big question - Thank you to all above who chimed in on the Clutch vs Trans subject.  I definitely want to run a Clutch. I get really really excited thinking about running a shorter (180 inch or so) wheelbase with a clutch and some old pie crust slicks and pedaling the thing. Thats what excites me about the stuff you guys do, really fighting to handle a car is by far the most exciting thing to me.  Also appreciate the comment about having SAW in the steering. Great example thanks!

So - a couple of things, again thank you all for being so understanding, its really exciting and humbling to come in here and have all you guys freely commenting and helping out, i just cant get over how great of a feeling is, so heres where i'm at.

Running a clutch - obviously the limitations come in pretty quick with Engine RPM and power.
Say i build a 500hp Poncho engine, that falls over after 6k rpm.   A 4.10 rear @6k rpm puts me at 140mph - something like that would be more than acceptable for me to have fun and get a feel for everything.

But would 500hp/550 ftlbs (probably making around 400 ft lbs @ 3300) be enough to even get this thing out of the hole when not running a trans. Or was it only the big Nitro engines that could pull that hard off the line to make it worth while using a clutch.

I'd love to Pedal it - not too excited on a fancy slipper clutch but maybe i would enjoy trying to set that up.

You guys mention reversers - is that using the lenco reverse module like on the ST1200  and throwing it off the end of the bell housing, then calling it a day?

plenty more questions to come but i'm already learning a real lot.

Again not trying to compete or run against anyone else, just want to have a dragster that i can enjoy tinkering on, have a blast fighting it down the track, and learning a bunch of things along the way.

Thank you all Again LOVE The pictures!!

Cheers
Sam

dreracecar

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2017, 09:21:17 AM »
Remember--- this is not the "Run what you brung" 60's,  Unless your plans are to run the car in the ally behind your house, there are rules and specs that you must adhere to if you plan to put it on the track- even if you just want to test and tune.
 To ask people on this board about clutch set ups and odd  configuations with recapped tyres is kind of useless, but tons of advice about Chevy's and PG's using racing slicks

Offline swilling

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2017, 11:09:55 AM »
Remember--- this is not the "Run what you brung" 60's,  Unless your plans are to run the car in the ally behind your house, there are rules and specs that you must adhere to if you plan to put it on the track- even if you just want to test and tune.
 To ask people on this board about clutch set ups and odd  configuations with recapped tyres is kind of useless, but tons of advice about Chevy's and PG's using racing slicks

Totally valid point. But by the sounds of things here some of you guys used to run clutches/reverser combos. Id certainly like to know more about the setup. Its really hard info to research.

 I guess i mean im not wanting to compete against any other cars or the likes.  Even if by the sounds of things a Glide is now the way to go. 

Any thoughts on clutching a lower powered direct drive N/A engine like i mentioned above?

Offline rooman

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Re: Where to Start
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2017, 12:45:15 PM »
Sam,
       a few years back I drove HAMB member Kerry's blown 354 hemi fed at Mokan. He was running the "pie crust" slicks and it was like driving on ice. My run is on this video starting at about 6:30 and you can see how much I was steering it

   

  And this was on a track that had some traction compound applied.

Roo
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